Black Lives Matter

[SwedgeAntilles]

11 hours ago, Andre91 said:

They already needed to fuck off and not come back because they’ve got no intention of ever recording new music. Waste of time band*. 
 

*they're my second favourite band of all-time as well. It’s sad that their cash cow antics have led to me thinking this. 

I'd hold off on the SOAD cancellation just yet. Serj has been pretty vocal about being at the other end of the spectrum of opinions to his drummer 

https://www.stereogum.com/2086908/system-of-a-down-serj-tankian-john-dolmayan-trump-korn/news/

[Andre91]

57 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

I'd hold off on the SOAD cancellation just yet. Serj has been pretty vocal about being at the other end of the spectrum of opinions to his drummer 

https://www.stereogum.com/2086908/system-of-a-down-serj-tankian-john-dolmayan-trump-korn/news/

Oh no, let me clarify, I’m not cancelling anybody. I think they need to fuck off anyway  

[VCK]

13 hours ago, zahidf said:

Awww well. That's them cancelled.

 

System Of A Down’s John Dolmayan: “Donald Trump is the greatest friend to minorities”

I think in general people need to stop with this politician worship, especially celebrities. 

[Gilgamesh69]

Great. There's now another stupid conspiracy I've started to see some idiots follow: George Floyd is still alive, and that's probably not even his real name. Yet again it's all some psyop apparently 😒

[zahidf]

The officers are now suspended after initially saying the victim 'tripped'

 

[blutarsky]

22 minutes ago, zahidf said:

The officers are now suspended after initially saying the victim 'tripped'

 

Saw the threads on Twitter, and the initial police statement, then the mayor's statement etc. Proper police state stuff. 

[Winslow Leach]

50 minutes ago, zahidf said:

The officers are now suspended after initially saying the victim 'tripped'

 

Always worth remembering the Met spent the days before the video evidence proved otherwise claiming their officers had valiantly tried to save Ian Tomlinson's life after he'd collapsed among all the scary protestors. 

[Winslow Leach]

Police propaganda really is scarily effective. I've always thought the killing of Jean Charles de Menezes was as good as murder, but even I only found out this week that the narrative of him jumping the ticket barrier and running from the police is total bullshit.

[FuzzyDunlop]

Keith Lemon / Leigh Francis has apologised for Bo Selecta.

I am someone who likes to think of himself as very anti racist. I have never had a race issue with Bo Selecta. There wasnt a joke made out about the characters being black. There were no black stereotypes being reinforced / made fun of. 

Craig David was bullied for having a Kestrel & that he pissed himself. I can understand people saying it was mean & heartless, but racist?

I found little britain far more offensive. To me that was demeaning.... the supposed "joke" was dependant on someone being black / gay. It was in my opinion backwards humour. The Bo Selecta jokes were not dependent on someones skin colour. 

....BUT.....

I am not black. It isnt for me to judge on what is offensive to someone & what isnt. Maybe it's me who has the problem? I found that funny when I was 20 or so & I don't want to admit to it being an issue?  The merits on the comedy (funny or not) isnt the point... or is it? Do I / did I laugh at things that are offensive or demeaning? Should I feel guilt for it? I dont know. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by FuzzyDunlop

[Mark E. Spliff]

1 hour ago, FuzzyDunlop said:

it was mean & heartless, but racist?

Agree.  Context is everything and the context of Bo Selecta was that, despite it deliberately putting on a crass appearance, it actually catered to a fairly intelligent crowd and got its laughs from coming up with the most grotesque parodies of celebrities it could.  Obviously, a white man blacking up on a comedy show is wide open to claims of racism, but in this case the audience was laughing at the ludicrous nature of the parody - not applauding a hostile representation of the black people they despise.

Whenever an issue gains public traction like this, there are always overreactions which ultimately detract from the initial opportunity to change deeply-held public prejudices.  In my opinion, Keith Lemon's apology for Bo Selecta is a classic example of that type of overreaction.  Decent people will understand the need to protest when the world has witnessed the brutal killing by police of an innocent man, and this has the potential to open their eyes to the harshness of life for ethnic minorities in 'white' countries.  The problem is that decent people are also very susceptible to the constant whisper that "you're not allowed to say anything these days" and overreactions like this actually play into the hands of the right-wing trolls and end up becoming own-goals.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Mark E. Spliff

[stuartbert two hats]

2 hours ago, FuzzyDunlop said:

Keith Lemon / Leigh Francis has apologised for Bo Selecta.

I am someone who likes to think of himself as very anti racist. I have never had a race issue with Bo Selecta. There wasnt a joke made out about the characters being black. There were no black stereotypes being reinforced / made fun of. 

Craig David was bullied for having a Kestrel & that he pissed himself. I can understand people saying it was mean & heartless, but racist?

I found little britain far more offensive. To me that was demeaning.... the supposed "joke" was dependant on someone being black / gay. It was in my opinion backwards humour. The Bo Selecta jokes were not dependent on someones skin colour. 

....BUT.....

I am not black. It isnt for me to judge on what is offensive to someone & what isnt. Maybe it's me who has the problem? I found that funny when I was 20 or so & I don't want to admit to it being an issue?  The merits on the comedy (funny or not) isnt the point... or is it? Do I / did I laugh at things that are offensive or demeaning? Should I feel guilt for it? I dont know. 

Little Britain was clearly racially insensitive at the time.  As was Come Fly With Me.

[gizmoman]

1 hour ago, Mark E. Spliff said:

Agree.  Context is everything and the context of Bo Selecta was that, despite it deliberately putting on a crass appearance, it actually catered to a fairly intelligent crowd and got its laughs from coming up with the most grotesque parodies of celebrities it could.  Obviously, a white man blacking up on a comedy show is wide open to claims of racism, but in this case the audience was laughing at the ludicrous nature of the parody - not applauding a hostile representation of the black people they despise.

Whenever an issue gains public traction like this, there are always overreactions which ultimately detract from the initial opportunity to change deeply-held public prejudices.  In my opinion, Keith Lemon's apology for Bo Selecta is a classic example of that type of overreaction.  Decent people will understand the need to protest when the world has witnessed the brutal killing by police of an innocent man, and this has the potential to open their eyes to the harshness of life for ethnic minorities in 'white' countries.  The problem is that decent people are also very susceptible to the constant whisper that "you're not allowed to say anything these days" and overreactions like this actually play into the hands of the right-wing trolls and end up becoming own-goals.

My initial reaction was the same as you, but I don't think the apology has anything to do with the blacking up, he wore masks much of the time anyway. I've just had a quick look through the Michael Jackson special he did, one I've watched before and found hilarious, if you watch it with a critical eye it is possible to see black stereotypes and potentially racist undertones, for example was it necessary to depict Uri Geller as a stereotypical jew?

Many of the characteristics of the people represented come under the banner of racial stereotypes, such as Oprah being represented as loving fried chicken,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotypes_of_African_Americans#Fried_chicken

Maybe Leigh Francis has been talking to black people and they are the ones who have made him want to apologise, the fact that the white audience he made the show for didn't see any problem is maybe relevant.

 

[zahidf]

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

4 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

Fuzzy "Piss off Donald"

[gigpusher]

56 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

 

Maybe Leigh Francis has been talking to black people and they are the ones who have made him want to apologise, the fact that the white audience he made the show for didn't see any problem is maybe relevant.

 

 

Yes this for me is the big one. It's not for me as a white person to say what is and isn't racist. Comedy tends to rely on caricature and stereotype and when a white person is doing it about a black person given the history of oppression etc then there's always a chance that it will be seen as racist. 

I've lost count of the number of white people who will swear blind that there was nothing racist about the killing of George Floyd and it was just one bad copper who probably would have done the same if he was white or who have brought up his criminal record as justification. We have such a long way to go!!

[fred quimby]

6 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

It's not for me as a white person to say what is and isn't racist.

Is it not ?

[fred quimby]

18 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

As always he is shit. However I really do hope that what is happening at present will start things moving more in the right direction

 

Donald - your a c**t (which I don't really like to say about someone with mental health issues)

[zahidf]

Clearest example of institutional racism

 

 

[VCK]

55 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Clearest example of institutional racism

 

 

The man who got shoved is white. But yeah, that's disgusting and the police system in America needs to be reformed.

[gizmoman]

On 6/1/2020 at 12:47 PM, gizmoman said:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

The chart above shows deaths by shooting but I'm sure the proportions will be similar for other deaths too, you are far more likely to die at the hands of the police if you are black and the figures don't seem to be going down, though they have for white deaths. The situation in America is hundreds of years in the making and isn't likely to change soon sadly, the one bit of positivity I see is the police wearing bodycams, this should make them more accountable and hopefully make them think twice before acting unlawfully. Everyone has a camera nowadays so it's getting harder for them to lie their way out of a bad situation, in the George Floyd case, years ago they would have claimed he was resisting arrest and they would have covered for each other, now it's on video everyone can see what happened.

Well that didn't take long,

"videos are exposing unchecked bad actors and the painful truth" It's ironic that the technology states would like to use to control the population (cctv, constant surveillance) is being used to hold them to account, the law of unintended consequences.

[Peroni]

I'm glad to see this debate.  As it recognises there is a problem.  In that sense having discussion can help us get to a solution.

 

One of the reasons why I love the festival so much is because of our inclusive it feels.  I've lost count if how many times people say when they find out I go "You Go to Glastonbury?!?!" Recoiling in horror and shock as if I'd just curled one out in the street.

I go because it offers me a few days respite a year of having to tone down and fit in.  I can just be.  Its exhausting having to constantly adjust to an ideal of what society thinks I should be, especially as a black woman.  I'm constantly fighting what they expect to find (Angry, aggressive, mad etc....)

I think in general what we are seeing and reacting to however shocking are symptoms of underlying deep rooted problems that until we address at source we will not have progress.    The inequalities in economic circumstance, education, healthcare, justice, social status - whilst these are not exclusive to black people they disproptionally impact and that's what needs to be fixed and why we say right now #blacklives matter, it's not to diminish other problems, its merely to try to spotlight this one.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Peroni
Typo

[Andre91]

Fair play to Leigh Francis for his apology, it is his art that he created and if he isn’t comfortable with elements of it decades on, that’s fine. 
 

I do think in general, though, that judging art from a bygone era by today’s social and moral standards is a tricky path to tread. 

[Sawdusty surfer]

Interesting take on law enforcement in 'merica by someone who seems to know what they are talking about...

It explains why the police can act with impunity

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/attorney-how-police-get-away-with-brutality/

Summary: the system is fecked. But worth listening to the whole 15 minutes.

If you didn't get the name and want to research her it was Theresa Caballero.

Again, well worth listening to.

Sorry if the link has already been posted.

[Neil]

9 hours ago, gizmoman said:

"videos are exposing unchecked bad actors and the painful truth" 

a truth that perhaps need re-evaluating after that violence to a white guy.

Racism is at play, big time, but the issue is waaaay bigger than simply 'bad actors' in the police or the state or 'institutional racism'. It's everything that comes from an economic system whose foundation is racist.

Very sadly I think it's likely those protesting about George Floyd in the USA and UK and other western countries would be protesting louder and more often (and more violently) - but for different reasons - if the racism was removed from the economic system.  

 

[O'Doyle Rules]

Kendrick Lamar on the pyramid during this whole situation would have been biblical