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jyoung

Black Lives Matter

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Gonna keep this short and sweet. Over the weekend I've felt an overwhelming and helpless response to the videos online and news coming out of the States. I'm trying to educate myself and open up my understanding of privilege / others lack of and have come across lots of useful reading which I thought was worth sharing for anybody else who wanted to read up.

https://blmsites.carrd.co/ - Several links and sites to donate, sign petitions and share info

Antiracist Allyship - Resources and tools regarding racism and how to be a better ally

Antiracist resources - Articles, videos, podcasts, books, films, orgs etc

Things You Can Do - Things white people can do for racial justice

Reverse Racism - A thread on why it's a myth

Antiracism for Beginniners - Common questions / definitions and how to take action

Apologies if this has come up somewhere else on the forum or is best placed in another part of the forum but I come here all the time to post about stuff that has little relevance to Glasto so I felt I had to share the above.

If you've come across anything else, please share it below.

Edited by jyoung
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Excellent thread and content @jyoung.

I'm sure I saw it posted in the RTJ thread but in case anyone missed it; Killer Mike's speech from Friday/Saturday is required viewing

 

 

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Apologies if it's slightly off the off topic but, for the bigger picture, I bought this book this morning (apparently it's very good):

"I was saying things before the election that people didn’t want to hear: that Trump had a very good chance of winning; that he was connected to organized crime, and to Russia; that he worked with white supremacists. These were obvious things—I don’t think it took great insight. But people didn’t want to hear this then."

https://www.vogue.com/article/sarah-kendzior-interview-hiding-in-plain-sight-donald-trump

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It's absolutely heartbreaking what's going on over there. I've been trying to educate myself more and it's a real eye opener =\

 

 

Also fuck cops

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What I've never understood all these decades- I love my colleagues, they're also my friends. If one day at work I saw one of them casually choke a person to death with their knee, there's no way in hell I'm just going to stand there. There's no way afterwards I'd cover up for them or want anything to do with them. Yet so many of these murdering, abusing, psychopaths are happily supported and protected by their fellow officers.

I just find it bizarre that that's their response as a human being. It's that supportive environment that's absolutely toxic and helps empower these murderers. 

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33 minutes ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

It's absolutely heartbreaking what's going on over there. I've been trying to educate myself more and it's a real eye opener =\

 

 

Also fuck cops

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

The chart above shows deaths by shooting but I'm sure the proportions will be similar for other deaths too, you are far more likely to die at the hands of the police if you are black and the figures don't seem to be going down, though they have for white deaths. The situation in America is hundreds of years in the making and isn't likely to change soon sadly, the one bit of positivity I see is the police wearing bodycams, this should make them more accountable and hopefully make them think twice before acting unlawfully. Everyone has a camera nowadays so it's getting harder for them to lie their way out of a bad situation, in the George Floyd case, years ago they would have claimed he was resisting arrest and they would have covered for each other, now it's on video everyone can see what happened.

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58 minutes ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

Also fuck cops

Because they’re all the same aren’t they 🙄

 

Awful what has happened over there, but I’m sure you’d find a lot of cops would agree with you that it was horrendous.

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4 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

What I've never understood all these decades- I love my colleagues, they're also my friends. If one day at work I saw one of them casually choke a person to death with their knee, there's no way in hell I'm just going to stand there. There's no way afterwards I'd cover up for them or want anything to do with them. Yet so many of these murdering, abusing, psychopaths are happily supported and protected by their fellow officers.

I just find it bizarre that that's their response as a human being. It's that supportive environment that's absolutely toxic and helps empower these murderers. 

I think that, in part, is down to the gun situation in america, they are facing situations everyday where they may be dealing with an armed criminal, it makes them trigger happy, they will have had friends and colleagues killed and they become hardened and quite brutalised,  They have a "us and them" attitude, they then have a culture of "protect each other, no matter what" I'm not defending them, but it's a toxic combination that leads to people being dehumanised.

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19 minutes ago, Andy0808 v5 said:

Because they’re all the same aren’t they 🙄

 

Awful what has happened over there, but I’m sure you’d find a lot of cops would agree with you that it was horrendous.

Obviously every countries police force is different, but in this case I'm referring to the US.

They are there to uphold a corrupt, racist and oppressive system. They exist to serve the wealthy elite and shut down any political dissent. Oh and let's not forget that at least 40% of police officer families experience domestic abuse, and that's just what's reported.

 

It is more effective to reduce crime by improving society as a whole i.e. better education, better employment opportunities, better healthcare (especially mental health) etc. Spending BILLIONS on military-grade equipment is not the answer, and is just a scary move toward fascism.

 

So yes, fuck cops. Any cops that think they're good should quit their job

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39 minutes ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

Obviously every countries police force is different, but in this case I'm referring to the US.

They are there to uphold a corrupt, racist and oppressive system. They exist to serve the wealthy elite and shut down any political dissent. Oh and let's not forget that at least 40% of police officer families experience domestic abuse, and that's just what's reported.

 

It is more effective to reduce crime by improving society as a whole i.e. better education, better employment opportunities, better healthcare (especially mental health) etc. Spending BILLIONS on military-grade equipment is not the answer, and is just a scary move toward fascism.

 

So yes, fuck cops. Any cops that think they're good should quit their job

I can't see how all the good cops quitting en masse now would help the situation? If anything, it could possibly make it even worse.

Edited by Homer

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Recognising it's not the place to have a for/against argument about the police, but in light of what's going on and how it's escalating I do think it's important to have a bit of balance.  County Sheriff in Flint, Michigan marching with protesters.  Similar sites in New Jersey and others as well.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/31/us/flint-michigan-protest-police-trnd/index.html

More than quitting, this is what needs to be done no?  Directly addressing the issue, calling for the arrest and prosecution of their own, and working with the protesters.

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Agreed, "all cops are bad" is just as toxic as "all black people are xxx" (where xxx is any derogatory description you care to insert)

The President of the United States of America is hiding in a bunker and the lights have been turned off at the White House. No, this isn't WW3 or an alien invasion this is rioting and burning buildings in the Nation's capital. This is the toxic end game of the Trump Presidency, the Republican Party need to seriously consider impeachment.

 

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1 hour ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

They are there to uphold a corrupt, racist and oppressive system. They exist to serve the wealthy elite and shut down any political dissent.

That may be true, but it shouldn't equate to 'fuck cops'. You've got an existential problem with the role of police enforcement. That's absolutely fair enough, but how do you go from that to writing off every single police officer?

1 hour ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

at least 40% of police officer families experience domestic abuse, and that's just what's reported.

I tried to find evidence for this, but I came up short. I did find this, which refers to a couple of studies produced nearly thirty years ago. Is that your source, or have I missed something?

1 hour ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

It is more effective to reduce crime by improving society as a whole i.e. better education, better employment opportunities, better healthcare (especially mental health) etc.

Totally agree with your first point, however we'll always have the inconvenience of human nature to deal with. Crime isn't going anywhere no matter how much investment is made. There will always be a need for a police force of some kind.

1 hour ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

So yes, fuck cops. Any cops that think they're good should quit their job

So we're left with the bad cops?

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It's much deeper than are cops good or are cops bad? We all have good and bad in us. Good people do bad things and bad people do good things. But that said, cops ARE killing black people and getting away with it. That's a statement that rings true whatever decade it is spoke in.

The story is lifetime after lifetime of systematic racism and power structures created by the rich and powerful to control, oppress and ultimately kill black people. It will take all of us to rethink how we understand and respond to racism, including the police and each and every one of us.

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Glad to see this on here. It has been heartbeaking to watch and I have seen things on Twitter and Facebook that make me regret being a member of the human race I have also seen things that give me hope. The one thing I find cringeworthy at the moment is the amount of 'Not All' posts. If peoples first thought on seeing these things is to try and defend and distance themselves they are completely missing the point. They are also missing out on a valuable lesson. If seeing these things makes you feel under attack and you feel the need to defend yourself then you are experiencing a fraction of what black people go through all the time feeling judged by something they had no control over and instead of getting defensive use that hurt and upset and do something positive with it. 

I saw a post from a guy who said the only way he can walk around his neighbourhood is with his daughters and his dog, that it wouldn't be safe to walk around on his own. That is fucked up!! I also saw a clip of a middle aged, slightly younger and teenage black men having a conversation asking how they can change things and what they need to do differently and the answer is it's not them that needs to change, it's white people. We need to think about more than ourselves when we vote, we need to stand up and report any unfairness that we see. We need to do more and be better. 

When I was younger I used to hate rap music, I called it rap with a silent c. I would never have thought I was racist but I was conditioned to think as an art form it was less than others. I personally now try my best to listen to more diverse music, read things written by people of colour, try and understand their stories. Don't be defensive, accept the criticism. Try and be better because it just has to stop. By the way my album of the year last year was Dave. That guy is a lyrical genius. My favourite podcast is also have you heard George's podcast? They have opened my eyes to how different their lves can be through no fault of their own. 

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6 minutes ago, jyoung said:

It's much deeper than are cops good or are cops bad? We all have good and bad in us. Good people do bad things and bad people do good things. But that said, cops ARE killing black people and getting away with it. That's a statement that rings true whatever decade it is spoke in.

No, c**ts are killing black people and getting away with it. It's not a coincidence they're cops (they can use that camouflage) but it's not the cop in them that's doing it, it's the c**t. I think it's dangerous to villainize vast swathes of people according to our anti-establishment prejudice. 

 

6 minutes ago, jyoung said:

The story is lifetime after lifetime of systematic racism and power structures created by the rich and powerful to control, oppress and ultimately kill black people. It will take all of us to rethink how we understand and respond to racism, including the police and each and every one of us.

100% agree. This has nothing to do with Trump or Obama or any individual president - it's a long-standing, deep rooted, systemic and historial inequality. In many ways it shows how young America still is - this is all part of her evolution.

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Was listening to an interesting piece by Jon Ronson. It lead onto the fact that in America around 20% (Around that) of prisoners were innocent. he was talking to a death row lawyer who was saying that when he has spoke to cops in America he would ask the question "have you ever arrested the wrong person" he said that all the cops he spoke to said they had never made a mistake and every one arrest was guilty (even if proved after they were not) it was something to do with an authoritarian brain where  they do not perceive themselves to be wrong and the questions that are set for interviews actually make sure you are hiring people like this and not the self doubters like me.

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38 minutes ago, kalifire said:

 

 

100% agree. This has nothing to do with Trump or Obama or any individual president - it's a long-standing, deep rooted, systemic and historial inequality. In many ways it shows how young America still is - this is all part of her evolution.

13th (was on Netflix) is an interesting Documentary on this

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10 minutes ago, fred quimby said:

Was listening to an interesting piece by Jon Ronson. It lead onto the fact that in America around 20% (Around that) of prisoners were innocent. he was talking to a death row lawyer who was saying that when he has spoke to cops in America he would ask the question "have you ever arrested the wrong person" he said that all the cops he spoke to said they had never made a mistake and every one arrest was guilty (even if proved after they were not) it was something to do with an authoritarian brain where  they do not perceive themselves to be wrong and the questions that are set for interviews actually make sure you are hiring people like this and not the self doubters like me.

Two things spring to mind there. One: cognitive dissonance. Two: the old saying that intelligent people have self-doubt, whereas 'other' people are always certain they are right all the time. Ronson's books are good FYI and the recent pod he did with Theroux.

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19 minutes ago, fred quimby said:

Was listening to an interesting piece by Jon Ronson. It lead onto the fact that in America around 20% (Around that) of prisoners were innocent. he was talking to a death row lawyer who was saying that when he has spoke to cops in America he would ask the question "have you ever arrested the wrong person" he said that all the cops he spoke to said they had never made a mistake and every one arrest was guilty (even if proved after they were not) it was something to do with an authoritarian brain where  they do not perceive themselves to be wrong and the questions that are set for interviews actually make sure you are hiring people like this and not the self doubters like me.

America has the biggest military in the world and a fair number of cops are ex-military, I can't find accurate figures but best guess seems to be 20-50% The police would attract a certain type of person anyway but having a high proportion of soldiers may lead to a more confrontational approach to policing.

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Police bruality against black people isnt the disease, it's a symptom of it. The whole American system is against Black people. 400 years of oppression. It runs deeper than cops. They are just empowered by the system. How hard it is for minorities to get positions of power. Even in sport, where a massively high % of players are black.

It needs to change.

I've heard some people say "it's ok here" - it's not. It's just different & in comparison to the USA, I do think there is more of a class issue here than a merely black / white issue (i.e. the Hillsborough cover up) the system here is rigged against the working classes. The American dream is a geniune thing, IF you are white. Here, the working classes are kept in their place, but there is also far too much racism here too. We've all heard it / seen it & it's being empowered by Trump lite & Mr Barnard's Castle.

The "ruling class" are very quick to highlight and divide the white / black / asian working classes as they are then easier to rule. They make us fight amongst ourselves, when in reality we are more alike than us and those "in charge".

#BLACKLIVESMATTER

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6 hours ago, kalifire said:

100% agree. This has nothing to do with Trump or Obama or any individual president - it's a long-standing, deep rooted, systemic and historial inequality. In many ways it shows how young America still is - this is all part of her evolution.

I've been rewatching The Sopranos, and the day after George Floyd's murder I watched an episode where there was a reference to the Newark Riots.

53 fucking years ago. And here we are, at the same place. Yes progress has been made, but at a snail's pace.

Trump is an easy person to point the finger at, and yes he absolutely has blood on his hands, but he's far from the only guilty party. These issues are far deeper than any one individual.

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It’s so important we all take note of what’s happening in the US.  Sadly systemic racism exits in many countries, ours included.  Never has the words of Dr Martin Luther King Been more relevant

‘ Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere’

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