Black Lives Matter

[Neil]

18 minutes ago, zahidf said:

New york to defund the police.

I thought that was wrong when the tories did it...?  

[jyoung]

29 minutes ago, jparx said:

And if Tory ministers think it's wise to circle the wagons again on this issue, which went so well with the Cummings fiasco, they're about to get a wake up call. People are fucked off enough already without a bunch of privileged Tories throwing their arms up about a statue of a slave trader being vandalised. They're again turning this into a right Vs left political issue as well as a social justice one (I mean it was always both, but it's being hammered home now). This government doesn't have a clue.

PM: "letter boxes, piccaninnies, watermelon smiles, Islam is the problem, natural to be scared of Islam"

Also PM: "the protests have become a betrayal of the cause they purport to serve"

[Neil]

13 minutes ago, jparx said:

It won't make police officers less racist over night but it's a start.

i'm not sure it's ultimately much more than tokenism. 

All of the while we value the work of someone in (say) Bangladesh less than we value the same work in 'the west', I can't see how much progress can be made in the west against racism.

We cannot share common values when we don't share common values.

[Mr.Tease]

26 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

New york to defund the police.

This is actually a smart thing to do (and not just for tackling racism) and it's ridiculous it's only being done now. A lot of police officers (and teachers) in the UK will tell you a lot of their work and call outs seem to have become dealing with mental health crises and social services issues, often for things they don't (understandably) have adequate training for, I presume it's the same in the US.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Mr.Tease

[zahidf]

14 minutes ago, Neil said:

I thought that was wrong when the tories did it...?  

Well,they are putting the money into more community based stuff and less on AK47's e.tc....

Much like most things in America, you gotta hit them where it hurts, in the pocket

[Neil]

10 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Much like most things in America, you gotta hit them where it hurts, in the pocket

hit who? Who do you think is paying for either?  

And there's no hit onto the funders from a transfer of funds from one thing to another anyway.

[zahidf]

4 minutes ago, Neil said:

hit who? Who do you think is paying for either?  

And there's no hit onto the funders from a transfer of funds from one thing to another anyway.

Oh hit the police. Give them less money if they cant stop their bullshit. Encourage more community ties to access funding.

Edited June 8, 2020 by zahidf

[Neil]

16 minutes ago, zahidf said:

if they cant stop their bullshit.

but they can't, any more than you or I can avoid being racist by the racist economic system we live under.

When individuals are valued differently, we act on those values.

[zahidf]

12 minutes ago, Neil said:

but they can't, any more than you or I can avoid being racist by the racist economic system we live under.

When individuals are valued differently, we act on those values.

Hmmm... they can help themselves from murdering black people. And I'd say their current behaviour during these protests are certainly behaviours they can stop perpetuating.

[Neil]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

Hmmm... they can help themselves from murdering black people. 

Without trying to excuse it, and the KKK, etc. aside, do you think those do set out out to murder black people? 

Or might it be the consequence of people having different values for themselves than they apply to others?

(to be clear, I'm not trying to excuse anything, I'm pointing at what I see as the true cause of the problem).

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

Without trying to excuse it, and the KKK, etc. aside, do you think those do set out out to murder black people? 

Or might it be the consequence of people having different values for themselves than they apply to others?

(to be clear, I'm not trying to excuse anything, I'm pointing at what I see as the true cause of the problem).

I'd argue it's very much something within the US system specifically which is wrong 

[Neil]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

I'd argue it's very much something within the US system specifically which is wrong 

I'm not saying everything is the same everywhere, I'm saying the driver of racism is the same everywhere. How that impacts within a society is the result of that society.

And of course it's very worthwhile trying to change things (such as pressure to bring those very high US death rates down, etc), but I don't really think it's tackling the heart of the issue, it's only lessening the degree and means we'll forever be going round in circles and not actually tackling racism.

[zahidf]

5 minutes ago, Neil said:

I'm not saying everything is the same everywhere, I'm saying the driver of racism is the same everywhere. How that impacts within a society is the result of that society.

And of course it's very worthwhile trying to change things (such as pressure to bring those very high US death rates down, etc), but I don't really think it's tackling the heart of the issue, it's only lessening the degree and means we'll forever be going round in circles and not actually tackling racism.

Oh, thats fair enough, but there is only so much you can do. Id say changing the nature of US policing and how they deal with minoirities is very worthwhile

[Neil]

Just now, zahidf said:

Id say changing the nature

which is also changed by tacking the heart of the problem.

[zahidf]

Both sides from the guardian again

[zahidf]

 

[Crazyfool01]

trying to engage some to come out and discuss the issue in my supermarket stay at home facebook group .... its been mostly those nasty people marching so far ... in fairness beaches have been mentioned too .... someone posted the question do they need a rifle and mask to go outside .... time for some education I think 

[zahidf]

Ha ah ha ha ha

 

[jparx]

Not sure what we're all up in arms about - our glorious white leader de Pfeffel said that we've made loads of progress on the issue. Case closed, no?

Jamelia owned it on BBC earlier. Well put about Patel as well. I think Patel has come across horribly in this situation and has tried to politicise this issue, using her own race as a weapon.

Edited June 9, 2020 by jparx

[zahidf]

Belgium's getting rid of statues

 

[zahidf]

Anywhere I can get this?

Like it's definitely bollocks but would be cool if true!

 

[zahidf]

 

[Zoo Music Girl]

51 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Belgium's getting rid of statues

 

This is fantastic 

[zahidf]

Finally trump is being presidential 

All sorted.

 

 

[fred quimby]

29 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Finally trump is being presidential 

All sorted.

 

 

Taken him a while but he is getting the hang of it now