When will this shit end?

[Toilet Duck]

18 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I knew you'd have something! But I was looking for something that breaks down the prevalence of long illness by age, rather than a detailed study on the effects of said illness. I suspect that data isn't around, at least non without a meta-analysis that nobody has done. Obviously I'd like someone to prove me wrong.

Biggest study so far from the team at KCL using the COVID symptom app. still under peer review, but essentially estimates that about 2% of those that develop symptoms (however mild) still have some 3 months later. 
 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.19.20214494v1

 

edit: should also point out that age, BMI and being female increased the likelihood  (OR just over 3)...

edit again: oops, mixed that up, age, BMI and gender increase risk, but experiencing more than 5 symptoms in week one was a predictor of prolonged symptoms (that had the OR of over 3!)...

Edited November 20, 2020 by Toilet Duck

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I knew you'd have something! But I was looking for something that breaks down the prevalence of long illness by age, rather than a detailed study on the effects of said illness. I suspect that data isn't around, at least non without a meta-analysis that nobody has done. Obviously I'd like someone to prove me wrong.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/21/women-aged-50-60-at-greatest-risk-of-long-covid-experts-suggest?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
 

This might help based on a Kings College study:

Women were twice as likely to suffer from Covid symptoms that lasted longer than a month.

22% of people aged over 70 suffering for four weeks or more, compared with 10% of people aged between 18 and 49.

[Leyrulion]

1 hour ago, fraybentos1 said:

Surely all the vulnerable (or most) is the easiest way to go? I don’t have the figures but the number of people who die/ get very ill who are under 60 and have no health conditions is minuscule?

It really depends on the type of immunity it gives. If it only stops you getting seriously ill then that's not quite as good as if it stopped you transmitting it and you might vaccinate different groups of people depending on which it did. 

Some of the Pfizer data wasn't entirely clear that it would actually be effective in the vunerable population

The phase 2 data from Oxford today was some of the most comprehensive yet showing it does give the immune reaction they expect in over 65's. They just don't know yet if that protects that group from getting it or getting seriously ill from it. 

However i know someone working on the Oxford trial and, whilst they won't tell me much, I will say that they're not calming my enthusiasm when I talk to them about vaccinations happening imminently. 

[Reckoner]

13 hours ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

This is the cost that a zero covid strategy comes at 

So the actual cost of this strategy was 3 days of restrictions as by going hard early and buying time to complete in depth contact tracing, they have been able to end it 3 days early after discovering one of the confirmed cases was hiding information which has actually reduced their possible contacts and risk of transmission.

Drive cases down, test, trace, isolate. It’s the only way.

The UK has failed in every way along this journey (although credit is well deserved for vaccine development). If only everyone who was so concerned about Xmas was paying attention in September when you actually needed to take action.

 

[Chapple12345]

 

[eFestivals]

10 hours ago, Mark E. Spliff said:

Presumably, this being your website, you know your way round the search function.  Do me a favour - have a look and find the post where I questioned Israel's right to exist.

(We all know you're too big a man to do apologies, but I'll take your failure to come back with said post as the nearest I'll get.)

I said: "Because the likes of you include attacks on Israel's want to exist..."
(and i said more, that you've not chosen to defend, probably for a reason)

And you'd previously said....

21 hours ago, Mark E. Spliff said:

Zionism comes with the same irrational baggage as the rest of the religious fundamentalist nutters, e.g. believing their magic Iron Age book gives them a divine right to lands which other people are already living on.

Now, maybe you only meant today's settlements and the desire for more, but I doubt it. People who make attacks on zionism rarely do.

But even if that is only what you meant, it's still a form of wording which leaves you open to the charge on a very reasonable basis, because your attack is on zionism - an idea which includes a 'homeland' at its centre  - and not the Israeli govts expansionism.

Now, that there is an exceedingly reasonable comeback, without need for any apologies.  

Or your snide.  

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by eFestivals

[SwedgeAntilles]

8 hours ago, zahidf said:

Gilbert seems to be saying something different here.

"The wars of the future will not be fought on the battlefield or at sea. They will be fought in space, or possibly on top of a very tall mountain. In either case, most of the actual fighting will be done by small robots. And as you go forth today remember always your duty is clear: To build and maintain those robots."

[priest17]

14 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

"The wars of the future will not be fought on the battlefield or at sea. They will be fought in space, or possibly on top of a very tall mountain. In either case, most of the actual fighting will be done by small robots. And as you go forth today remember always your duty is clear: To build and maintain those robots."

[steviewevie]

Rheumatoid arthritis drug appears to help Covid patients in ICU

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/19/rheumatoid-arthritis-drug-tocilizumab-appears-to-help-covid-patients-in-icu

[steviewevie]

NHS prepares dozens of Covid mass vaccination centres around England

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/20/nhs-prepares-dozens-of-covid-mass-vaccination-centres-around-england

[JoeyT]

10 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

NHS prepares dozens of Covid mass vaccination centres around England

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/20/nhs-prepares-dozens-of-covid-mass-vaccination-centres-around-england

It all seems very close now!

Had a surge of emotion / near wet eye moment in the car driving in to the office this morning that we're nearly at the end game of this absolute monstrosity.

It was either that or the thought that somehow our government will mess the roll out up...

[Guest]

Soldiers, police officers, teachers and civil servants are just some of the people set to foot the bill for the Government's spending. 
 

However, nurses, doctors and other NHS workers are expected to be exempt from the pay cap measure which Mr Sunak will apparently announce next week.

[Ayrshire Chris]

9 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

was either that or the thought that somehow our government will mess the roll out up...

Must admit you get a feeling of optimism and a sense that we are seeing an end to all this in the near future

then there’s the realisation that Johnson and Hancock are in charge of organising this and doubts set in! Hopefully it’s put in the hands of the professionals and adequate funds/staff  allocated . 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Ayrshire Chris said:

Must admit you get a feeling of optimism and a sense that we are seeing an end to all this in the near future

then there’s the realisation that Johnson and Hancock are in charge of organising this and doubts set in! Hopefully it’s put in the hands of the professionals and adequate funds/staff  allocated . 

For that reason alone I’m erring on the side of caution and expecting this to last a bit longer 😆

[Mark E. Spliff]

54 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I said: "Because the likes of you include attacks on Israel's want to exist..."
(and i said more, that you've not chosen to defend, probably for a reason)

And you'd previously said....

Now, maybe you only meant today's settlements and the desire for more, but I doubt it. People who make attacks on zionism rarely do.

But even if that is only what you meant, it's still a form of wording which leaves you open to the charge on a very reasonable basis, because your attack is on zionism - an idea which includes a 'homeland' at its centre  - and not the Israeli govts expansionism.

Now, that there is an exceedingly reasonable comeback, without need for any apologies.  

Or your snide.  

 

I have disdain for Zionism for exactly the same reason I have disdain for Christian, Muslim and Hindu fundamentalism - believing that an ancient magic book overrides rationality and morality is always harmful.  The reason there are no posts from me on here questioning Israel's right to exist is a lot less complicated than the verbal gymnastics you've gone into above.  It's because I don't question Israel's right to exist. 

Your world view, expressed above, is that anyone criticising the illegal settlement process probably denies the right of Israel to exist.  That's an extreme right wing view, which has become normalised.  The United Nations opposed the settlement process for decades for good, rational, moral reasons - it's pouring petrol onto the flames and massively damages the prospect of a peace process in the middle east.

By the way, we're all familiar with how you debate on your forum.  Apologies may not be part of your toolkit, but Insults and false claims definitely are.  I'm sorry that you found me defending myself against your claim to be snide.  I'm only thankful the boot wasn't on the other foot - if I'd accused you of a position you didn't hold, the toys would be leaving the pram in spectacular fashion.

[Havors]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/11/19/many-could-immune-covid-despite-never-having-infected-study/

Finally good see some MSM bringing this up... the conversation has been avoided for a long time. 

[eFestivals]

 

15 minutes ago, Mark E. Spliff said:

Your world view, expressed above, is that anyone criticising the illegal settlement process probably denies the right of Israel to exist. 

Not at all. I just choose my words wisely so the two cannot be confused.

There's no need* to mention zionism

(* unless you believe it to be be Israeli govt policy, which the facts suggest isn't the case).

The Israeli govt stands responsible in its own right.

 

15 minutes ago, Mark E. Spliff said:

The United Nations opposed the settlement process for decades for good, rational, moral reasons - it's pouring petrol onto the flames and massively damages the prospect of a peace process in the middle east.

No shit sherlock. It also opposes Palestinians throwing bombs over the fence.

I realise the two are intermingled, but no sovereign state is going to accept those kinds of border hostilities and any peace process will be stalled until that changes.

In a world that worked on only right and wrong I'm sure we'd all have our solutions for that part of the world.

In the world that exists, the Palestinian approach has seen the land available to them continually shrink because it gives Israel the perfect cover.

 

15 minutes ago, Mark E. Spliff said:

By the way, we're all familiar with how you debate on your forum.  Apologies may not be part of your toolkit, but Insults and false claims definitely are.  I'm sorry that you found me defending myself against your claim to be snide.  I'm only thankful the boot wasn't on the other foot - if I'd accused you of a position you didn't hold, the toys would be leaving the pram in spectacular fashion.

says the man happily throwing his own false claims around as his toys hit the ground. Ho-hum.

[mattiloy]

1 hour ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

"The wars of the future will not be fought on the battlefield or at sea. They will be fought in space, or possibly on top of a very tall mountain. In either case, most of the actual fighting will be done by small robots. And as you go forth today remember always your duty is clear: To build and maintain those robots."

Haha yes, feels very ’men who stare at goats’

 

@steviewevie - it seems that there is your answer re: Boris’ early keynesian platitudes- public sector pay freezes and a militant approach to trade - same old tories.

[funkychick2007]

Great!!! All the frontline staff work our arses off normally anyway even more so during Covid to protect the vulnerable and everyone in society putting ourselves and our families at risk!’ What do the government decide tht they will freeze our wages to save money!!! Unbelievable!!! Angry and speechless are my only thoughts! Well the ones I can post anyway! 🤬

[st dan]

17 minutes ago, funkychick2007 said:

Great!!! All the frontline staff work our arses off normally anyway even more so during Covid to protect the vulnerable and everyone in society putting ourselves and our families at risk!’ What do the government decide tht they will freeze our wages to save money!!! Unbelievable!!! Angry and speechless are my only thoughts! Well the ones I can post anyway! 🤬

My wife, mum, brother all work in the public sector and whilst the pay freeze is far from ideal, the one positive they have had this year is job security - which as we’ve seen can never be taken for granted. Basically they are in their jobs as long as they want them. A lot of people in the private sector are not so fortunate and are scrambling around for any work they can find. 
Not saying the pay freeze is correct or just, but given the tough economic climate we will all be facing in the coming years, the job security the majority of the public sector have is a crumb of comfort. 

[funkychick2007]

@st dan thanks for this response it does mean we will have a job which many others may not! Always good to consider a different perspective! 

[st dan]

1 minute ago, funkychick2007 said:

@st dan thanks for this response it does mean we will have a job which many others may not! Always good to consider a different perspective! 

But you’re obviously right to be annoyed at the pay freeze .. the year that the public sector has kept this country running and the amazing jobs all NHS staff, teachers etc have done for so many people - to not be rewarded financially as you all thoroughly deserve is terribly unfair. But thank you!! 

[funkychick2007]

6 minutes ago, st dan said:

But you’re obviously right to be annoyed at the pay freeze .. the year that the public sector has kept this country running and the amazing jobs all NHS staff, teachers etc have done for so many people - to not be rewarded financially as you all thoroughly deserve is terribly unfair. But thank you!! 

We do the job because we all love it!! The money is rubbish anyway for what we deal with it!! The part tht makes us so angry is the government freezing our wages is the cover up for the direct impact on the people we work with! They have already told us we need to cut our budgets next financial year!! Our response how do you cut a budget of nothing!! If we need anything for work we generally fund it ourselves or it’s from a charity based or voluntarily organisation!! 
I wish politicians would come and spend a month with us all and see what really exists out there! 
Thank you for your acknowledgement it’s what keeps us going!! 

[Leyrulion]

Ooo my friend working on the Oxford vaccine has told me that they'll get cited as an author (alongside the 600 others...). 

We're hopefully going together to the farm next year so if we make it to you all owe them a drink. 

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, st dan said:

But you’re obviously right to be annoyed at the pay freeze .. the year that the public sector has kept this country running and the amazing jobs all NHS staff, teachers etc have done for so many people - to not be rewarded financially as you all thoroughly deserve is terribly unfair. But thank you!! 

Trust me I get what you are saying however the last public sector pay freeze went on for 8 years and only ended in 2018. So for those people it might be hard to rationalise it that at least they have a job (I’m surmising).

Another factor I think that makes this even more of a joke is that the Government can waste millions on contracts that give large payout to consultants or their friends yet can’t find the money to give public sector workers pay rises. They have found another £21.5b for defence funding and this is also whilst MPs will be getting a pay rise as well.

It’s disgraceful and an indication we are heading back to some form of austerity when it’s the opposite they should be looking at doing. 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Ozanne