When will this shit end?

[HalfAnIdiot]

It's great to see that the USA has joined COVAX, something Trump was dead against, their commitment will accelerate testing & vaccine rollout to poorer nations. It's also worth bearing in mind that the UK are major sponsors to via Gavi in relation to our GDP. (Interestingly TikTok are one of the larger corporate sponsors too!)

https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-join-who-world-health-organization-covax-vaccine-trump-2021-1

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by HalfAnIdiot

[Mellotr0n]

https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1355431527593738242?s=20

apologies don’t know how to embed tweets - report in The Times (paywall) suggesting vaccines beginning to help drive down infections in UK. 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Mellotr0n

[Ozanne]

1 hour ago, Matt42 said:

This is the EU’s fault though. I voted remain and I still think we are better off in Europe, but it’s not our job to sort out the EU’s problems anymore.

I respectfully disagree with this 100%. As a wealthy, civilised society I believe we have a morale duty to help out other people/countries if they need it whether it’s their own mistakes or not. There might be a time where we need help because of a mistake we’ve made and if we only looking ourselves now that help might not be forth coming.

It’s 2021 as a society we can surely look past our own self-interests if other people need help. 

[Ozanne]

7 minutes ago, Mellotr0n said:

https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1355431527593738242?s=20

apologies don’t know how to embed tweets - report in The Times (paywall) suggesting vaccines beginning to help drive down infections in UK. 

It’s the arrow symbol on the bottom right of the a tweet, then ‘copy link to tweet’, then paste it in your message here. 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I respectfully disagree with this 100%. As a wealthy, civilised society I believe we have a morale duty to help out other people/countries if they need it whether it’s their own mistakes or not. There might be a time where we need help because of a mistake we’ve made and if we only looking ourselves now that help might not be forth coming.

It’s 2021 as a society we can surely look past our own self-interests if other people need help. 

I think the other dynamic, though, is that they need to help themselves. Prominent leaders saying stupid things that will drive anti vax sentiment isn't conducive to us then giving them vaccines. They would be better going to other countries where a higher percentage of at risk and vulnerable people are willing to take them.

[Ozanne]

Just now, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

I think the other dynamic, though, is that they need to help themselves. Prominent leaders saying stupid things that will drive anti vax sentiment isn't conducive to us then giving them vaccines. They would be better going to other countries where a higher percentage of at risk and vulnerable people are willing to take them.

Obviously, they aren’t going to sit back and do nothing and expect us to do it all for them.

By saying ‘it’s not our job to sort the EUs problems’ in my view risks us becoming very isolated if they asked for that help and we said no. We are all humans after all and should strive to help each other out where we can not going back in on ourselves. Tbf there isn’t any hint that the UK government would do this. 

[Toilet Duck]

3 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

I think the other dynamic, though, is that they need to help themselves. Prominent leaders saying stupid things that will drive anti vax sentiment isn't conducive to us then giving them vaccines. They would be better going to other countries where a higher percentage of at risk and vulnerable people are willing to take them.

The EC need to sit down with AZ and ask, what do you need? What would help you get back up to capacity and when you are there what would get you above that (as Pfizer are doing). Once there, what do you need to stabilise that. Squabbling is a waste of time, find a bloody solution!

[stuartbert two hats]

1 hour ago, The Dawg said:

Just to take this back to basics for a bit. All these 'Vaccine League Tables' & 'Vaccine Nationalism' is really getting me down. Why can't our Government do the decent thing and offer some sort of olive branch to the EU, at least get together to talk things through. Wouldn't that be the decent thing to do?

I'm sick of people smirking at the the thought that we are doing ok and the EU have messed up.

Anyone from the EU, or anywhere else in the world, either vulnerable, elderly or a front line worker can have my vaccine. I am happy to wait. The world needs to be vaccinated not just me.

Fucking virus, I'm off for a run with Ultra Mono on full blast.

 

Hopefully that's exactly what's going on via back channels. After all, in Q3, we're likely to have a surplus, so there may well be negotiations going on - although that may well be wishful thinking on my part. If there were, I suspect the big sticking point would be timing - we still want to get our over 50s/60s done ASAP before starting to share out any of our stash.

[Ozanne]

 

[steviewevie]

 

[HalfAnIdiot]

10 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Obviously, they aren’t going to sit back and do nothing and expect us to do it all for them.

By saying ‘it’s not our job to sort the EUs problems’ in my view risks us becoming very isolated if they asked for that help and we said no. We are all humans after all and should strive to help each other out where we can not going back in on ourselves. Tbf there isn’t any hint that the UK government would do this. 

In support of what you say and despite what many think the UK have a strong record of international collaboration & support*. Our diplomatic core is one of the best too.

In this case the EU seemed to jump into the deep end with no warning. Odd behaviour really that smacks of panic. 

* That's not to forgive the recent discraseful  cut in foreign aid.

[steviewevie]

Covid rules vary around the world

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/30/from-lockdowns-to-pool-parties-how-covid-rules-vary-around-the-world

[Ozanne]

2 minutes ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

In support of what you say and despite what many think the UK have a strong record of international collaboration & support*. Our diplomatic core is one of the best too.

In this case the EU seemed to jump into the deep end with no warning. Odd behaviour really that smacks of panic. 

* That's not to forgive the recent discraseful  cut in foreign aid.

The EU have been panicking for sure and their behaviour has been pretty poor there’s no doubt. However if they still asked for help I think considering our resources and standing in the world we should help, that goes for any other country to be honest.

As you say we do have a very good record for this type of thing and one I would hope doesn’t change anytime soon. 

[Mark E. Spliff]

10 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

The EC need to sit down with AZ and ask, what do you need? What would help you get back up to capacity and when you are there what would get you above that (as Pfizer are doing). Once there, what do you need to stabilise that. Squabbling is a waste of time, find a bloody solution!

The voice of reason.  The other side of the coin is that the UK Govt's public messaging should also have been along these lines, i.e. "regardless of whatever AZ have got in their contract, we understand that the issue here is not a game, but preventing horrific deaths so we're going to provide AZ with whatever resources they need to overcome their production problems as quickly as possible."

In a situation where every country is desperate for any available vaccine supply, the above may seem like hollow words, but that type of messaging is important.  It could pull the rug out from under the right wing populist scumbags who're having a field-day with vaccine wars.  The fact that this kind of nationalist rhetoric is finding its way onto a leftie, 'snowflake' forum like this one tells you that long after these vaccine supply issues have been resolved, we're going to be feeling the consequences in terms of UK and European electorates who've become comfortable with populist, jingoistic, nationalistic bollocks.  And therein lies the problem - BoJo, Le Pen and co. will be very happy for exactly this to happen.

[stuartbert two hats]

1 hour ago, Mellotr0n said:

https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1355431527593738242?s=20

apologies don’t know how to embed tweets - report in The Times (paywall) suggesting vaccines beginning to help drive down infections in UK. 

Hit enter and wait after pasting link.

[Radiochicken]

 

😂

[Ayrshire Chris]

Just love the size of Brian Blesseds face mask as he gets the vaccination! 

[Zoo Music Girl]

I know there were a couple of people on here doing the ONS study, just wondered if they were still getting the visits? We started in October and had visits every week, doing bloods when needed and swabs, and then it just dropped off. We were supposed to be going to monthly, but nothing in December. I called them the other day and they said that we were still on it and someone would be in touch soon but January nearly done too. Wondered if they are having  staffing issues or something?

[Chapple12345]

Did my first swab as part of routine testing that we've not introduced at my work amongst staff yesterday, the mouth swab is horrible but I can manage the nose one, came back negative but doing the next one Tuesday so I'm pleased it can be done regularly 

[Matt42]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

I respectfully disagree with this 100%. As a wealthy, civilised society I believe we have a morale duty to help out other people/countries if they need it whether it’s their own mistakes or not. There might be a time where we need help because of a mistake we’ve made and if we only looking ourselves now that help might not be forth coming.

It’s 2021 as a society we can surely look past our own self-interests if other people need help. 

Yeah but this isn’t our responsibility anymore. This a contract between AZ and the EU that has nothing to do with us.

They would NOT do the same for us. And I am a remainer.

[duke88]

14 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I know there were a couple of people on here doing the ONS study, just wondered if they were still getting the visits? We started in October and had visits every week, doing bloods when needed and swabs, and then it just dropped off. We were supposed to be going to monthly, but nothing in December. I called them the other day and they said that we were still on it and someone would be in touch soon but January nearly done too. Wondered if they are having  staffing issues or something?

My friend is on it, and her and her kids are still being done every month, so it is still ongoing

[Leyrulion]

1 hour ago, Mellotr0n said:

https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1355431527593738242?s=20

apologies don’t know how to embed tweets - report in The Times (paywall) suggesting vaccines beginning to help drive down infections in UK. 

I went through some of the threads linked to in those tweets by various mathematicians. 

TL;dr- Some of the accelerating decrease in cases we're currently seeing could be explained as an effect of the one day of mixing (schools back) being smoothed out by 7 day averages.

However there does appear to be an accelerating decrease in cases in over 80s which can't be explained by that... They might be explained by a word beginning with V.

[Toilet Duck]

4 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Yeah but this isn’t our responsibility anymore. This a contract between AZ and the EU that has nothing to do with us.

They would NOT do the same for us. And I am a remainer.

I think Spliffy (above) is right though...it’s not about whether it’s anyone’s responsibility nor, “well, they wouldn’t do it for us”. There’s been loads of posts starting with, “I’m a remainer...but”. Sounds awfully like other sentences that betray a prejudice you don’t want to admit...

I too find it a bit troubling that populist, us and them, protectionist, nationalistic sentiments have bubbled to the surface in a place that I know is predominantly frequented by reasonable, decent people. I can only imagine what’s being said in the darker corners of the internet! Brexit has clearly damaged us all, it’s time to repair and rebuild trust (on all sides). We’ll all be better off for it and as far as the pandemic goes, it really is only over when it’s over for everyone. 
 

^ this isn’t directed at you Matt, just used your post to reply to! 

[st dan]

Guess it would be a good time for the UK to offer some support and assistance where possible, as it’s inevitable we’ll be going out to the EU at some point soon asking for some help with some Brexit related issues.  

[mcshed]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

I respectfully disagree with this 100%. As a wealthy, civilised society I believe we have a morale duty to help out other people/countries if they need it whether it’s their own mistakes or not. There might be a time where we need help because of a mistake we’ve made and if we only looking ourselves now that help might not be forth coming.

It’s 2021 as a society we can surely look past our own self-interests if other people need help. 

We have a moral duty to help and we are,  we have massively subsidised vaccine development and upscale of manufacturing we have donated loads to COVAX we are doing our bit. Once we have protected our own population we will still have set up the capacity to manufacture hundreds of millions of doses that will go to places all over the world including the EU. 

Meanwhile the EU have plenty of vaccines on order and whilst suffering a delay is certainly unfortunate it does not leave them in the worst position in the world vaccine wise and given the speed of uptake in France of the Pfizer jabs that they do have I'm far from convinced that giving them extra doses is the most ethical way forward.