When will this shit end?

[Matt42]

15 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

I think Spliffy (above) is right though...it’s not about whether it’s anyone’s responsibility nor, “well, they wouldn’t do it for us”. There’s been loads of posts starting with, “I’m a remainer...but”. Sounds awfully like other sentences that betray a prejudice you don’t want to admit...

I too find it a bit troubling that populist, us and them, protectionist, nationalistic sentiments have bubbled to the surface in a place that I know is predominantly frequented by reasonable, decent people. I can only imagine what’s being said in the darker corners of the internet! Brexit has clearly damaged us all, it’s time to repair and rebuild trust (on all sides). We’ll all be better off for it and as far as the pandemic goes, it really is only over when it’s over for everyone. 
 

^ this isn’t directed at you Matt, just used your post to reply to! 

This isn’t populism though this is interfering in something that isn’t our responsibility. They will sort it out themselves.

If the EU are going to be thinking “well The U.K. now need to step in at every opportunity to help us” going forward, that’s not going to work either. We’ve left the EU we need to let them handle things on their own for a bit before already trying to muddle the waters.

I want to reiterate again that they will sort it out themselves. They don’t need us.

[Matt42]

2 minutes ago, mcshed said:

We have a moral duty to help and we are,  we have massively subsidised vaccine development and upscale of manufacturing we have donated loads to COVAX we are doing our bit. Once we have protected our own population we will still have set up the capacity to manufacture hundreds of millions of doses that will go to places all over the world including the EU. 

Meanwhile the EU have plenty of vaccines on order and whilst suffering a delay is certainly unfortunate it does not leave them in the worst position in the world vaccine wise and given the speed of uptake in France of the Pfizer jabs that they do have I'm far from convinced that giving them extra doses is the most ethical way forward.

Exactly. They aren’t in a life or death situation and they will sort the issue out soon enough. We don’t need to step in at the first opportunity.

We also can’t allow a relationship where we go the extra mile and they leave us at the bottom of the pile. We need to be firm about some things.

[Ozanne]

37 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Yeah but this isn’t our responsibility anymore. This a contract between AZ and the EU that has nothing to do with us.

They would NOT do the same for us. And I am a remainer.

I believe that the EU would do the same for us, they are arranging help for poorer nations round the world so I would have no doubt that they wouldn’t for us too. It’s in their interests as well as ours.

It isn’t our responsibility but leading is about stepping up to help when we might not have to. 

[Ozanne]

7 minutes ago, mcshed said:

We have a moral duty to help and we are,  we have massively subsidised vaccine development and upscale of manufacturing we have donated loads to COVAX we are doing our bit. Once we have protected our own population we will still have set up the capacity to manufacture hundreds of millions of doses that will go to places all over the world including the EU. 

Meanwhile the EU have plenty of vaccines on order and whilst suffering a delay is certainly unfortunate it does not leave them in the worst position in the world vaccine wise and given the speed of uptake in France of the Pfizer jabs that they do have I'm far from convinced that giving them extra doses is the most ethical way forward.

Yes I’m aware of all that. I was talking more in general terms that we should help other countries if they need it. The EU don’t need our help at this moment in time. 

[Matt42]

Just now, Ozanne said:

I believe that the EU would do the same for us, they are arranging help for poorer nations round the world so I would have no doubt that they wouldn’t for us too. It’s in their interests as well as ours.

It isn’t our responsibility but leading is about stepping up to help when we might not have to. 

Arranging to help poorer nations would not be helping us. They would prioritise countries that really need aid over developed countries like us.

The EU and AZ will sort it out. The U.K. doesn’t need to jump in with every mistake. We don’t jump in with every US or Aus mistake.

[zahidf]

5 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I believe that the EU would do the same for us, they are arranging help for poorer nations round the world so I would have no doubt that they wouldn’t for us too. It’s in their interests as well as ours.

It isn’t our responsibility but leading is about stepping up to help when we might not have to. 

They seem more intent on trying to get our supply at the moment. Somewhat hard to believe  that they have our best interests at heart 

[Ozanne]

5 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Arranging to help poorer nations would not be helping us. They would prioritise countries that really need aid over developed countries like us.

The EU and AZ will sort it out. The U.K. doesn’t need to jump in with every mistake. We don’t jump in with every US or Aus mistake.

I’m not saying we need to jump in at every opportunity, I’m saying if another country needs our help through a mistake of their own making or not then we should try to help.

In the scenario where they couldn’t sort this out, things got worse and they asked for our then I think we should oblige for the reasons I’ve stated. 
 

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

They seem more intent on trying to get our supply at the moment. Somewhat hard to believe  that they have our best interests at heart 

They are trying to look after their own citizens by obtaining as much of a vaccine as possible. Any responsible governing body would try to do the same. The EU aren’t out to get the UK.

[fraybentos1]

10 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I believe that the EU would do the same for us, they are arranging help for poorer nations round the world so I would have no doubt that they wouldn’t for us too. It’s in their interests as well as ours.

It isn’t our responsibility but leading is about stepping up to help when we might not have to. 

So are the U.K.?

If your argument is based on us helping countries in need them the summer countries are surely very far down that list. They’re mostly rich countries who will be fine.

[duke88]

I just think it’s all rather sad. Couple of weeks ago we were all optimistic about the vaccine rollout going brilliantly. Now, it’s turned into a massive international squabble and things are getting nasty (not on here).

I’m sure we can help out in some way as a gesture of friendship and solidarity. I don’t think the UK has done anything wrong at all, but if we can help out without affecting our own rollout too much, then we should. It also gives us the chance to be the good guys for once!

 

[mcshed]

11 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Yes I’m aware of all that. I was talking more in general terms that we should help other countries if they need it. The EU don’t need our help at this moment in time. 

In general terms we do and on this specific issue of vaccines we are so I don't see your issue. 

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, mcshed said:

In general terms we do and on this specific issue of vaccines we are so I don't see your issue. 

I don’t have an issue, I was responding to another poster that said he doesn’t think we should help the EU. I also said that the government haven’t given any signs that they wouldn’t help. As I said it was in general terms I was speaking, there’s no issue. 

[JB15]

15 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

 

They are trying to look after their own citizens by obtaining as much of a vaccine as possible. Any responsible governing body would try to do the same.

And that’s exactly what the U.K. government did in 2020 and are doing now. The EU has failed its citizens in not doing likewise last year. 
 

The poor vaccine procurement in the EU has nothing to do with the U.K. . The EU are trying to deflect from doing poorly compared to us by trying to insinuate that we have stolen their supplies, which isn’t true. 
 

I 100% support the U.K. in helping poorer nations in getting vaccine supply. Problem is, the EU have ballsed up and instead of asking for help, have tried to blame the U.K. 

[stuartbert two hats]

37 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Exactly. They aren’t in a life or death situation and they will sort the issue out soon enough. We don’t need to step in at the first opportunity.

We also can’t allow a relationship where we go the extra mile and they leave us at the bottom of the pile. We need to be firm about some things.

It seems very odd to be telling you of all people that a situation isn't that extreme, but this literally is a life and death situation. That's why things are so tense, if the EU is unable to get enough vaccines, then people will die.

It's not an existential threat to the EU if that's what you mean? But it is life and death.

[Splonk]

Apologies if posted before, but Russia has offered the EU 100m doses of Sputnik V.

Haven't seen this reported in any of our papers.

Side note: Sputnik is surely the coolest name for a vaccine out there. AstraZeneca need to up their game on their vaccine branding - call it 'Apollo' or 'Panacea', or something.

"Yeah mate, I've just had my hit of Apollo - rocking man." etc

 

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Splonk

[steviewevie]

WHO urges Britain to pause Covid jabs after treating vulnerable

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/30/who-urges-britain-to-pause-covid-jabs-after-treating-vulnerable

[zahidf]

 

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

WHO urges Britain to pause Covid jabs after treating vulnerable

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/30/who-urges-britain-to-pause-covid-jabs-after-treating-vulnerable

This won’t go down well.

[zahidf]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

WHO urges Britain to pause Covid jabs after treating vulnerable

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/30/who-urges-britain-to-pause-covid-jabs-after-treating-vulnerable

Not just Britain: all developed countries.

Hey, if we can do that without lockdowns then fine.

[Tranquility of Solitude]

Vaccines are the new toilet rolls.

[steviewevie]

WHO blokes says some stuff.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/jan/30/whos-covid-warnings-were-not-heeded-now-the-world-has-a-new-chance-to-beat-the-virus

[Ozanne]

‘As long as I can get to the pub then other countries can have our vaccines...’ 😉

[steviewevie]

Covid: The devastating toll of the pandemic on children

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55863841

[Toilet Duck]

9 minutes ago, Splonk said:

Apologies if posted before, but Russia has offered the EU 100m doses of Sputnik V.

Haven't seen this reported in any of our papers.

Side note: Sputnik is surely the coolest name for a vaccine out there. AstraZeneca need to up their game on their vaccine branding - call it 'Apollo' or 'Panacea', or something.

"Yeah mate, I've just had my hit of Apollo - rocking man." etc

 

 

Germany are helping them to prepare their EMA submission, and since they started to publish the data on the vaccine, there’s a lot more support for it. I believe they are also working with Oxford on using their shot for the second dose (though it seems OX/AZ have figured out the efficacy issue). There’s plenty of good things that can be done, those looking after it need to calm down and make some organised, rational decisions. 

[Mr.Tease]

39 minutes ago, duke88 said:

I just think it’s all rather sad. Couple of weeks ago we were all optimistic about the vaccine rollout going brilliantly. Now, it’s turned into a massive international squabble and things are getting nasty (not on here).

I’m sure we can help out in some way as a gesture of friendship and solidarity. I don’t think the UK has done anything wrong at all, but if we can help out without affecting our own rollout too much, then we should. It also gives us the chance to be the good guys for once!

 

I would have like to have seen the UK gvt step in and send some vaccines to Portugal and Spain the other day, so they didn't have to cancel arranged vaccinations (especially considering Portugal's rates of infecting etc) - small, basic stuff like that is easy to do (I suspect we have some spare vaccines built up). 

However, this pandemic has seen great international scientific endeavours let down by 'every country for itself' politics, that just screws over everyone. 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Mr.Tease

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, Mr.Tease said:

I would have like to have seen the UK gvt step in and send some vaccines to Portugal and Spain the other day, so they didn't have to cancel arranged vaccinations (especially considering Portugal's rates of infecting etc) - small, basic stuff like that is easy to do do (I suspect we have some spare vaccines built up). 

However, this pandemic has seen great international scientific endeavours let down by 'every country for itself' politics, that just screws over everyone. 

It isn't that simple as 'here have ours' when we have vulnerable people in our country who need it asap