Kneecap

[Twiggy553]

The BBC cut M.I.A. for her dancers wearing t shirts protesting about the Tamils so no way they’re showing this gig whatever happens

[CaledonianGonzo]

1 minute ago, Twiggy553 said:

The BBC cut M.I.A. for her dancers wearing t shirts protesting about the Tamils so no way they’re showing this gig whatever happens

 

I'd assume even before this it wouldn't have been broadcast given the nature of a lot of their lyrics.  Very much an iPlayer only scenario.

[Colorblindjames]

1 minute ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

I'd assume even before this it wouldn't have been broadcast given the nature of a lot of their lyrics.  Very much an iPlayer only scenario.

The BBC have shown other Kneecap gigs in the past. I’d say Glastonbury won’t be impressed if the BBC attempts to curate. It’s a political statement by the BBC not to show the gig. 

[bobsacamano]

Glastonbury is a big event and as anyone who works in it knows there has to be a certain level of co-ordination with the security and police forces who work to keep our country safe from terrorist attacks.

 

Whether Kneecap play or not will probably be decided on the basis of if having an act charged with Terrorist offences playing at the festival compromises these relationships or not. It won't be made on the basis of anybody's position within the festival on Israel/Palestine.

[Nicklord]

18 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

What did they do? Like if people are more upset about a flag than the images of children’s bodies in bin liners cause by our politicians we’ve got a big problem. 

 

10 minutes ago, Twiggy553 said:

I don’t they could be much clearer about supporting palestine in that statement

 

Yeah, yeah, except they showed support several times to the groups that are killing civilians, including those they're trying to free. Let's not even go into what they did in neighboring countries.

 

I'm sorry, I can't get behind Kneecap being good guys here. Only garbage people support Hamas and Hezbollah, people like that shouldn't be supported.

 

Saying that doesn't mean I think politicians who actively support Israel are good guys either. But there's a reason Idles or Massive Attack (or literally thousands of other bands) didn't get into any trouble.

[Colorblindjames]

Just now, Nicklord said:

 

 

Yeah, yeah, except they showed support several times to the groups that are killing civilians, including those they're trying to free. Let's not even go into what they did in neighboring countries.

 

I'm sorry, I can't get behind Kneecap being good guys here. Only garbage people support Hamas and Hezbollah, people like that shouldn't be supported.

 

Saying that doesn't mean I think politicians who actively support Israel are good guys either. But there's a reason Idles or Massive Attack (or literally thousands of other bands) didn't get into any trouble.

The reason Idles and Massive Attack didn’t get into trouble is because they aren’t as direct in their criticism of Israel and its supporters in the West. 
 

Kneecap are the good guys. Anyone who uses a “but Hamas, but Hezbollah” argument in response to this genocide doesn’t have an argument. 

[ironmike8]

I think there's an element of misrepresenting Kneecap here, and I'm not sure whether it's deliberate or not. In 7 years of gigging, there's two (unrelated) incidents where they've done something stupid and overstepped the mark.

 

The way people go on about it you'd think they were hanging flags from the rafters week after week, rather than doing it once and apologising for it.

 

It doesn't feel like the argument is made in good faith, and so is harder to take it seriously. It's just faux outrage

[Looother]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

I wonder if they supported what Hezbollah were doing in Syria too.

 

And this is the thing. At this point angry opposition to what Israel are doing in Gaza obviously fits with Glastonbury's ethos as well as basic morality, but at the same time support for Hezbollah sits in direct opposition to it. If their statement had been something like: "Having educated ourselves about Hezbollah's history and its ethos, it is obviously abhorrent and we sincerely regret that, in our ignorance, our previous actions might have been interpreted as support for them. But Israel's government is also abhorrent, and we will not be silenced [etc]" surely it would have shut the whole thing down. But instead they've chosen to repeat the latest viral falsehoods (as if the truth wasn't bad enough) and position themselves as victims. It leaves Glastonbury in an unenviable position, but they should have seen this coming.

[CaledonianGonzo]

20 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

The BBC have shown other Kneecap gigs in the past. I’d say Glastonbury won’t be impressed if the BBC attempts to curate. It’s a political statement by the BBC not to show the gig. 

 

I really don't envisage Greg James introducing them doing tracks like Fenian c**ts or Rhino Ket as part of the BBC2 broadcast.  Edited highlights as part of a compilation on best bits would be reasonable, however.

[Madyaker]

It’s a difficult position for the festival. But  the guy who has been charged has a right to the presumption of innocence until convicted and this trial likely won’t happen for months. I don’t think they’ll be dropped now. 

[Colorblindjames]

3 minutes ago, Looother said:

 

And this is the thing. At this point angry opposition to what Israel are doing in Gaza obviously fits with Glastonbury's ethos as well as basic morality, but at the same time support for Hezbollah sits in direct opposition to it. If their statement had been something like: "Having educated ourselves about Hezbollah's history and its ethos, it is obviously abhorrent and we sincerely regret that, in our ignorance, our previous actions might have been interpreted as support for them. But Israel's government is also abhorrent, and we will not be silenced [etc]" surely it would have shut the whole thing down. But instead they've chosen to repeat the latest viral falsehoods (as if the truth wasn't bad enough) and position themselves as victims. It leaves Glastonbury in an unenviable position, but they should have seen this coming.

They made a statement weeks ago opposing violence. 
 

But no more. They are right now to kick back against this political policing. We approach these things differently in Belfast. 

[Twiggy553]

Well this conversation has certainly educated me a great deal on what’s going on there, lets hope its going on in other circles too.

 

if the “powers that be” want to silence the debate they’ve f**ked up by airing it all in public

[JayBoogie]

No one at these gigs is coming away thinking 'wow these boys really support Hamas, they love Hezbollah, I'd better do the same'

 

This'll sound pretentious but it's true - it's a performance, they're characters, and it's a part of a long history within Irish art of mixing protest, violence, satire, comedy, insincerity and sincerity. The film is the exact same idea

 

Their audience understands this, and let's be honest, no one thinks this lad is a terrorist. It's a show of power by the establishment

[she bangs the drums]

23 minutes ago, JayBoogie said:

No one at these gigs is coming away thinking 'wow these boys really support Hamas, they love Hezbollah, I'd better do the same'

 

This'll sound pretentious but it's true - it's a performance, they're characters, and it's a part of a long history within Irish art of mixing protest, violence, satire, comedy, insincerity and sincerity. The film is the exact same idea

 

Their audience understands this, and let's be honest, no one thinks this lad is a terrorist. It's a show of power by the establishment

Exactly, this is a case of people thinking they have to pick a side and if you are on Israel side, then these guys are scape goats. 

 

When they play Glastonbury (and they will as what they have done is not a sexual or violent crime) it is going to be one of the all time great sets. Not because these lads are the most talented musicians, because people can relate to them and their voice. 

[steviewevie]

Maybe they'll get replaced by Yuval Raphael.

[HotChipWillBreakYourLegs]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Maybe they'll get replaced by Yuval Raphael.

 

If they're going to be replaced by anything it should be the audio of the last words of 6 year old Hind Rajab as she pleaded for safety whilst her and her rescuers were murdered by the IDF.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68180642

 

[steviewevie]

I don't know if they will play or not, more likely they will..just about...but I imagine it's pretty difficult for the festival to know what to do.

[doogie]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

I don't know if they will play or not, more likely they will..just about...but I imagine it's pretty difficult for the festival to know what to do.

 

They should put it to a televote

[bigbilly]

Not sure West Holts will be big enough for the crowd they will get 

[CaledonianGonzo]

7 minutes ago, bigbilly said:

Not sure West Holts will be big enough for the crowd they will get 

 

Not sure how enthused I am about having to sit through some Bob Vylan in order to be within the same postcode as the stage.

[foolee]

Just now, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

Not sure how enthused I am about having to sit through some Bob Vylan in order to be within the same postcode as the stage.

Bob Vylan are a great live act tbf. Can’t wait for the double bill, first time I’ll be seeing acts at west holts too, can’t wait! 

[smogo]

12 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

Not sure how enthused I am about having to sit through some Bob Vylan in order to be within the same postcode as the stage.

If you like Kneecap, you'll probably like Bob Vylan too.

[devonhammer]

10 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

Not sure how enthused I am about having to sit through some Bob Vylan in order to be within the same postcode as the stage.

If you haven't seen Bob Vylan, then you should go. They're a quality live act. Shame that there's a break between acts because seeing them back to back might start a revolution.

[Nicklord]

1 hour ago, Colorblindjames said:

The reason Idles and Massive Attack didn’t get into trouble is because they aren’t as direct in their criticism of Israel and its supporters in the West. 
 

Kneecap are the good guys. Anyone who uses a “but Hamas, but Hezbollah” argument in response to this genocide doesn’t have an argument. 

It's not some straw argument to say "but Hamas, but Hezbollah" - that's who they support. Good guys don't support groups like that. They're literally supporting groups that killed Irish peacekeepers a few years back.

 

In general, I hate that "if you don't like what Kneecap is doing, you must think Israel is good". I just think having someone like Kneecap be front page of the "free Palestine" discourse isn't helping people in Gaza at all. Most people don't support Israel, but they also don't want to be associated with someone like Kneecap or people who defend them. 

[devonhammer]

1 hour ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

I really don't envisage Greg James introducing them doing tracks like Fenian c**ts or Rhino Ket as part of the BBC2 broadcast.  Edited highlights as part of a compilation on best bits would be reasonable, however.

Saw them last year and someone had brought their kid along (surely a morning slot at Woodsies would be child friendly?). Dad turned to me and said "Did he just say c***?". When I confirmed, he covered young Tarquin's ears, but stayed for the rest of the set, so respect for the parenting skills.