When will this shit end?

[Crazyfool01]

So what becomes the acceptable level of deaths ? A flu season in a bad year is 20k … and of course there will be some overlap … at some point the level of deaths will begin to have an impact on other nhs services 

[Copperface]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

I’d encourage anyone to eat healthy, exercise, drink less and get enough sleep to equip their body to fight it off if they do catch it.
 

And if you can’t do that, then just voluntarily stay in lockdown to minimise the risk of catching it in the first place.

So we can all go to festivals and do the exact opposite of that advice?

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Not to mention the fact that it’s not like Johnson is personally going out and killing the (for instance) 7000 people that might die if there’s a reopening on the 21st.

 

We have a lot of autonomy over our relationship with this virus. I’d encourage anyone to eat healthy, exercise, drink less and get enough sleep to equip their body to fight it off if they do catch it.
 

And if you can’t do that, then just voluntarily stay in lockdown to minimise the risk of catching it in the first place. No one is being forced to go to the pub. 

As ive said, im fine with masks on public transport and maintaining everyone washing their hands a lot. Social distancing needs to be in the bin asap though

[steviewevie]

Just now, crazyfool1 said:

So what becomes the acceptable level of deaths ? A flu season in a bad year is 20k … and of course there will be some overlap … at some point the level of deaths will begin to have an impact on other nhs services 

well...I think too early to be asking this right...obviously we have people dying every year from flu...but we still don't know long term how bad this covid thing will be once everyone vaccinated etc. I think the main issue is can our NHS cope with both a bad flu outbreak and covid outbreak every winter? I guess we need to keep flu+covid deaths below a certain threshold.

[Fuzzy Afro]

1 minute ago, Copperface said:

So we can all go to festivals and do the exact opposite of that advice?

Well it’s all a matter of personal choice really. I get enough happiness from a festival that it’s worth the very small risk of catching covid. 

[zero000]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

well...I think too early to be asking this right...obviously we have people dying every year from flu...but we still don't know long term how bad this covid thing will be once everyone vaccinated etc. I think the main issue is can our NHS cope with both a bad flu outbreak and covid outbreak every winter? I guess we need to keep flu+covid deaths below a certain threshold.

I’m guessing there’s going to be some competition between flu and covid where one or the other becomes the predominant cause of death in those who are sadly vulnerable to the virus. Guessing it’s likely to be covid as it’s a more novel virus. 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Copperface said:

So we can all go to festivals and do the exact opposite of that advice?

we'll have to make do with those yoga/fitness/healthy eating type festivals that some people seem to actually like to go to.

[thewayiam]

12 hours ago, stuartbert two hats said:

To be fair they haven't said they're going to do anything. Excerpt below, italics mine:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-response-spring-2021/covid-19-response-spring-2021-summary

Step 4 - not before 21 June

Social contact

By Step 4 which will take place no earlier than 21 June, the government hopes to be in a position to remove all legal limits on social contact.

Wording is always key. They have promised nothing major yet.

[fraybentos1]

Was there not some speculation that the new MRNA vaccines science/ tech whatever might be able to create a much better flu vaccine?

Tbh I think we are lucky that vaccines are so so good against this thing, could easily have been way worse. Thank fuck for science

[DeanoL]

16 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

5,000-10,000 deaths is what I’d be willing to accept but I’d counter that by asking if you really think those measures are preventing that?

I think those measure would delay spread of the virus enough to outrun it with vaccines yeah - I won't repeat all my previous post but we *have* to get the timing right. The vaccines *will* stop the virus from ever being a threat to overwhelming the NHS but they're not there yet. It's whether we can get away with opening up in the meantime.

Because if we get it wrong, it *will* mean another lockdown. And that'll be an economic disaster. But if you think the government is going to start turning patients away from hospitals and letting them die in the streets you're mistaken.

I note with some interest the people confidently saying there's zero chance of another lockdown if we re-open were saying the same thing in August last year. 

[aj6658]

There is 0 reasons to delay the 21st lifting.  

• Number of cases literally do not matter. Hospitalisations and deaths do. If the number of cases tripled but hospitalisations and deaths still remain low then there is no risk
• We are hovering around a 100 hospitalisations or so a day. As the rollout continues, we shall see this number drop 
• Deaths are now hovering around 10 
• By end of June we will have the high risk groups (which account for 98% of the deaths) double jabbed 
• If you are young you are not at risk which is the majority of the unvaccinated population  

 

Where in the data have we seen a dangerous 3rd wave that is actually going to overwhelm the NHS or cause significant deaths?  I cant see it in the data. Everyone is out getting merry, definitely a lot of people breaking rules.  

[Ozanne]

1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

I swear that was the general reaction when the roadmap was announced on this thread. There was certainly very little "oh so Glasto could have gone ahead after all" hand-wringing at least.

What are people so desperate to do between June 21 and July 5 anyway? Are you all going to that James gig in London? I'd totally get the complaining if we were talking about the earlier May date, but at this point you can see friends, you can go to the pub, you can hug your family... I get that you can't go out with *all* your friends at once, and that you might have to book a pub in advance, and that you have to wear a mask in places but... it that really that much of a hardship? Is it such an horrendous impact on your mental health?

I would also understand if we were talking about pushing it back a month, because that's when people are starting to have gigs and events and stuff booked in. But in that gap between June 21 and July 5 is there really much people have tickets for? Are we expecting June 21 to be confirmed on June 14 and suddenly promoters jump into gear and put a load of stuff on?

Yeah I agree. When you think how far we have come from 2-3 months ago it puts it into perspective for me. We could barely go out of our homes and now we can go to pubs and peoples homes etc. If things are delayed then it’ll only be for a short while which in the grand scheme of things isn’t long at all.

Some of the aspects of these areas aren’t that bad, booking a pub, app ordering etc are quite nice if a bit annoying at times. I’d gladly do those things to be able to go back to pubs and socialise again. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

I should add that I personally find I can do basically everything I want under step 3 so from a personal point of view a delay is fine, but so many people’s livelihoods depend on a full reopening that it would be fucking heinous not to go ahead with it. 
 

 

Time to let people make their own personal risk assessment of the virus. 

[steviewevie]

poor Fray.

[hodgey123]

The potential extension of the 21 June date to me is not down to what I can't do now which I would be able to do then (though there are a couple of things). The main reason I am opposed to it is because it feels if the government compromise now, then what happens when another variant comes along (which it will)? What will be the excuse next time? At some stage enough is enough. There is also the fact that I think the wider population see it as the 'end' of COVID, and I don't think that massive relief if 21 June does go ahead can be understated (both socially and economically I might add). 

[efcfanwirral]

 

[zahidf]

 

[Gilgamesh69]

Is it true there's gonna be an announcement today about June 21st? Haven't been following the news much lately

Edited June 3, 2021 by Gilgamesh69

[Fuzzy Afro]

Just now, Gilgamesh69 said:

Is it true there's gonna be an announcement today about June 21st? Haven't been following the news much lately

Announcement today over international travel. Sources tell the Sun there will be some upwards movement on the RAG list but no one will join the Green list. 
 

No announcement today on 21 June. 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

Is it true there's gonna be an announcement today about June 21st? Haven't been following the news much lately

Haven't heard that. They were going to announce something on travel adding countries to green list, but maybe that's not happening now. The next big day is 14th June when they will look at data and make a decision...maybe...

[Ozanne]

8 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

This would be a good move I feel. It’ll be important to have a safety net increase we do need to put in place any restrictions through the Autumn and Winter. 

[kalifire]

What's the UK position on booster shots? Has the government made any announcements on them?

I'm wondering if people will be considered as 'vaccinated' after 12 months with no booster...

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, kalifire said:

What's the UK position on booster shots? Has the government made any announcements on them?

I'm wondering if people will be considered as 'vaccinated' after 12 months with no booster...

Trials at the moment and agreement with AZN for a new vaccine shot

[eFestivals]

58 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

It's all the public can do? Not get a test? I'm sure there might be other things the public can do to stop the virus spreading.....

I'm talking about how the public can directly influence the govts choices. If there's fewer positive tests it gets difficult for the govt to have restrictions because of the virus spreading. its a direct intravention into the process which isn't possible in any other way.j Joe public can't decide that he's not going to get infected but he can decide how much his infection feeds into the rest of what happens.

 

Fewer tests is fewer positive results which is less need for lockdown measures.

It's not a perfect intravention into the process but it does influence the data which influences the measures decided via the data.

Edited June 3, 2021 by eFestivals

[Mellotr0n]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I'm talking about how the public can directly influence the govts choices. If there's fewer positive tests it gets difficult for the govt to have restrictions because of the virus spreading. its a direct intravention into the process which isn't possible in any other way.j Joe public can't decide that he's not going to get infected but he can decide how much his infection feeds into the rest of what happens.

 

Fewer tests is fewer positive results which is less need for lockdown measures.

It's not a perfect intravention into the process but it does influence the data which influences the measures decided via the data.

Of course doing that would mean more undetected spread of the virus which would lead to more hospitalisations and therefore more need for lockdown measures - self defeating tactic, methinks.