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DeanoL

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Everything posted by DeanoL

  1. No mate, you're just not reading my posts properly. You even stopped reading that one that explained exactly what I meant again for you, so you could have a pop. And honestly, you could be right, but the fact you get so angry when people even bring masks up, even though apparently everyone else thinks like you anyway so there's nothing to worry about, makes me even more convinced you're wrong. I'm not even in favour of masks. I think without social distancing they are borderline pointless. I was shocked that 10% figure you posted was so high. But when I want to do something, I just put a damn piece of cloth over my mouth and go do it, and so do all my friends, and we really don't care. I appreciate you struggle with masks, they're really uncomfortable for you and get you all upset, but maybe consider that's where most of your anger about the issue comes from.
  2. Oh yeah, there's impact, but I don't think it's impact this government gives a shit about, which is what I was saying in my post.
  3. What if, just think about it for a moment, you're the one wrong on it, because you hate masks so think everyone else is the same, and there's an echo chamber in your mind? Just consider, that that might be a remote possibility?
  4. They're just trying to get to the level of vaccination we're already at voluntarily though. It's really interesting you post that as an argument against masks, despite it saying that masks make a difference. I think that's the crucial thing you're missing, the vast, vast majority of people don't really care about masks one way or the other. Like you said, most wear them when it's the rule, don't when not. The government basically see masks in public places as a zero-cost measure - the economy stays open, people just mask up and get on with it. I'm surprised the figures are that high, to be honest, and I don't think we should keep them, but it's an easy argument to make that cutting infections by 10% is worth the "zero" cost of having masks. Vaccination status might still impact the level of care the infected need though so there's still potential hospital numbers to worry about.
  5. I think you're over-estimating how many people and in what conditions people in Japan wear masks in normal times to be honest. I'm not saying everyone will be masked up all the time, just we've been sold masks have health benefits and stop transmission of disease for well over a year now, that's not going entirely back in box. It won't be everyone, it won't be all the time, but you will see masked people around both next month and next winter for sure.
  6. Can we review in November, actual COVID/flu season y'know...
  7. Like I say, happy to discuss the benefit of Lockdowns in a post-vaccine world, I think that's complicated, and as the vaccine rollout continued the cost/benefit of lockdown is arguable. I argued on one side of it and I still believe that, but I see the other point of view. I don't see the point of view that lockdown in March 2020 was ineffective. Because the vaccine effects transmission. It reduces it. There's both data pointing at that *and* common sense: the vaccine clearly reduces symptoms, the more symptomatic you are, the more infectious you are. It's not *as* effective against the new variant, sure, but it still works. *citation needed 😄
  8. Nah it pretty much was until the times around the various reopenings. But there was a huge portion where pretty much everyone posted was on the same "side" - that restrictions were needed, and it was just discussing the best way, how the government were cocking up, how Indie SAGE were right - things only diverged when the whole "back to normal" thing started.
  9. I think I generally do approach the debate in an open way and listen to what people have to say. But yeah I think people who believe that "lockdowns had no benefit" or "the vaccine isn't worth having" are stupid. That's kind of my red line. It's gone increasingly weird in here as it's become more of an echo chamber but I've mostly engaged, but those beliefs are on part with "the vaccine is full of nanobots Bill Gates uses to control you". There's swathes and swathes of test data on the benefits of the vaccine, and the risks (virtually nil). Unless you had COVID less than 3 months ago there's no sensible reason to not get it, regardless of if you had a medical degree. And on lockdowns, trying to use the fact that "well we didn't lockdown now and it's been fine" when we're facing a milder variant against an almost fully vaccinated population, to suggest that locking down in March 2020 was a mistake... when y'know, there's the evidence of the countries that locked-down later having more deaths out there... or the fact that every time we did a lockdown, the deaths went down loads. A coincidence, apparently, the full three times it happened. I'm fine arguing with Barry over whether the post-vaccine restrictions are sensible or not, I was fine discussing at the time what lockdown measures would work best, where the attention should be, the best way to open up safely, that was all interesting. I have quite strong views on a lot of those things, but I can follow the logic of those that don't share them and it's often informative discussion. You've always been interesting to discuss with because you do and have often changed your mind, you're much less stuck on one side or the other than most of the posters here. But when you do change your mind you are so convinced you're right this time around, and for some technical reason you were never wrong before. And you're quite forceful in putting that across. I can see why people get wound up with you. I get wound up with you. But looking past that there's almost always some sort of valid point in the snark.
  10. I don't think I've been opposed to any of the lockdowns. I've had mixed feelings on some other restrictions but broadly I think most of the lockdowns should have been sooner, harsher and in most cases longer. I certainly don't buy the narrative that some of you lot are pushing that the lockdowns had no impact and were never necessary in the first place. I've sort of bit my tongue on that as I think that attitude is borderline certifiable, so outlandish that I don't even know how to start unpicking it. I've ignored it in the same way I've ignored posts about conspiracy theories around the vaccine - it's a position based so utterly beyond reason or logic that there's no point engaging with it. But yeah, I go back and forth on what sort of restrictions are warranted based on what the figures are. I seem to be the only one left in thread doing that, the rest of you have got your Tory out and chased everyone else off, and seem to be of the opinion that it's no restrictions ever again under no circumstances. And while that's almost a sane position now, it's been that way here for the past six months. I guess you knew the pandemic would end eventually, so if you kept at it you'd be right eventually? 😄 This thread has basically become an echo chamber with me being the only broadly dissenting voice. Which, y'know, I don't mind, it's interesting to watch and see. But it does amuse me that sometimes I get told I'm not living in the real world or in my own echo chamber. I literally read and engage with this thread every day - you lot *are* my exposure to the lockdown hawks. Now maybe outside of this thread I do basically live in a bubble that's not reflective of the rest of the country. Perhaps. I know when I talk with friends about some of the stuff posted on here that's presented as "that's what everyone thinks" they find it hilarious that people are that out of touch. I'm intrigued if any of you actually read Christina Pagel's threads any more to see what the other "side" are saying or if you just post them here and call her an idiot or whatever. Maybe I'm in a bubble, maybe you're in a bubble, maybe we're both in bubbles and this is the only place they meet. All I'd say is that just because someone openly acknowledges they could be wrong, or even have been wrong, doesn't make them less likely to be right.
  11. France has fewer deaths per million population both overall and over the last 7 days: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
  12. Then you can probably stop getting all wound up about these articles that say they're going to be here forever then, as there's absolutely no chance that'll happen?
  13. I literally said I didn't think there was a medical justification for it. I just think not taking the vaccine is stupid, and someone that doesn't take the vaccine when offered is stupid, and I don't want stupid people involved in taking care of me in life threatening situations. Now if it's worth creating a potential staffing crisis in the NHS in exchange for getting rid of it's 80000 most stupid front-line workers I'm not so sure on. And I do think that's what is going on here. They're dressing it up as being about transmission of COVID, but it's actually just NHS bosses taking the opportunity to purge the ranks. I totally agree with you guys there. I'm just not yet convinced one way or another on if such a purge is a good or bad thing. Had we not done a Brexit and so were already facing a staffing crisis I think it'd be an easier question to answer. As for the masks thing - your posts seem to go back and forth between telling me that masks will never catch on as a thing as it's utterly impossible given our culture, and then posting links about people saying there might be continued mask restrictions. The mask restrictions are popular because some people want them and that's why you're seeing these articles saying people support them, or that they'll keep them past end of January. You know I agree with you on how pointless they are without social distancing, but you seem to be pushing this point that as a culture we're desperate to throw them in the bin, while posting loads of links saying the opposite. I know *you* are desperate to get rid of them but you're not indicative of the general populace. Which should be obvious to you given how traumatic you find them versus how easy to put up with most of us find them.
  14. How many people do you think regularly wear them in places like Japan and so on? But that protection won't be as broad as that of a vaccine and will wane more quickly. If he'd been infected a few months ago then it'd be perfectly reasonable to put off getting vaccinated for a few months more, but not to decide not to take it entirely. I don't care that much if some NHS IT guy has the vaccine or not but given the choice I'd rather not have treatment proscribed for me by someone who thinks vaccines are pointless.
  15. The vaccine reduces transmission a bit. But yeah, I think something more is going on here - it's basically a purge of people from the NHS that don't believe in medical science. Whether you think that's a good thing or not is down to the individual.
  16. I know you won't wear one but people less triggered by them probably will.
  17. Is that even a myth? Not one I've ever heard. They just wear them when they're ill or in crowded places where they don't want to get ill. I think that'll become the norm here too.
  18. It's Japan. Mask wearing when ill or potentially infectious or in very crowded areas is common in some cultures. Wouldn't be surprised if that's where we end up, not legally mandated though.
  19. Well yeah but that's not something the government can really influence. It's the press choosing to report it or not, and I can't see them stopping while people still want that information - even if we agree it's not good for them.
  20. I really don't trust this government enough to be comfortable with them stopping publishing figures.
  21. Is that common though? I genuinely don't know, just trying to understand if there's much point to this or if it's the government again doing something just to be seen to be doing something. (Incidentally, both myself and my mother tested negative on day 9 with one of the older throat and nose swab tests, and positive on day 10 with one of the new "both nostrils" tests - I'd assume those latter tests are more sensitive - an unreported reason why isolation will have gone up)
  22. I think it was almost inevitably linked to the Wuhan lab in some way. It'd be a hell of a coincidence if not, for a Coronavirus outbreak to start right next to the world's biggest lab for studying Coronavirus. Just there's a hell of a leap from "escaped in a lab accident" to "was being bioengineered as a weapon". If you're China of course you'd want to cover it up if it all turns out to be your fault because being responsible for it is really bad, but it doesn't mean you were engineering a virus to kill people.
  23. Isn't daily or every other day testing still compulsory for healthcare people though? I feel like that's the biggest issue we have at the moment - that lack of supply issue for hospitals, rather than high demand. If it doesn't tackle that it's just pushing at the corners.
  24. Does this help much? With the health care isolation issue thing? I was still getting positive LFTs for over even the 10s days. Are people really contracting it on Day 0, getting a positive LFT, then on days 4 and 5 it's already cleared up and they're negative? I mean maybe the vaccine/anitbodies really do work that well in people? Or is this solely to deal with someone getting a false positive test, in which case it'll make sod-all difference?
  25. At this point it's health theatre, and we can all point and laugh at that and say "it's so stupid, I wouldn't fall for that" but the flip side of it is the stark reality that: it works. It's how you make people feel comfortable getting back to normal. The same pubs that, when cases were up but there were no restrictions in December, were complaining that their numbers were down? I'm convinced with Omicron the pandemic is essentially over, but convincing people of that, after so many false starts, will be challenging. Especially as the whole "freedom day" thing is something you only get to do once. Confidence this time is going to return more slowly.
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