When will this shit end?

[Leyrulion]

5 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Scotland announcing a new lockdown even stricter than the March one 

Send to be the only way to get r below 1. Until vaccines start helping to do that as well.

[steviewevie]

 

[JoeyT]

13 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Scotland announcing a new lockdown even stricter than the March one 

How so?

Edit: just seen above post.

Edited January 4, 2021 by JoeyT

[xxialac]

5 minutes ago, Leyrulion said:

Send to be the only way to get r below 1. Until vaccines start helping to do that as well.

I doubt the vaccines will help the R rate for a long, long time.

In some ways, their very existence might encourage people to adhere less to the rules.

[tigger123]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

Is a legal stay at home order what we have in English tier 4 at the moment? Because if so, it ain't working!

Edited January 4, 2021 by tigger123

[zahidf]

Seems a waste to give it all to one person

 

 

 

[Gingerfish79]

Latest opinion poll is grim for Labour. 

[parsonjack]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

Seems a waste to give it all to one person

 

 

 

 

[xxialac]

2 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

Is a legal stay at home order what we have in English tier 4 at the moment? Because if so, it ain't working!

There should be a curfew too.

Better to really push hard now to reduce the case numbers or it will just prolong the pain.

[st dan]

I really think they should consider allowing two households to ‘bubble’ - I think you’d actually get far better compliance and people sticking to the rules this way, as many simply don’t like being told they cannot see anybody parents, children etc. 
Obviously would not apply to those that are vulnerable. 

[Gingerfish79]

Probably a Brexit poll, but it’s clear Labour have stalled since last summer.

[zahidf]

Just now, Gingerfish79 said:

Probably a Brexit poll, but it’s clear Labour have stalled since last summer.

Its probably not worth getting obsessed over current polls. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

1 minute ago, xxialac said:

There should be a curfew too.

Better to really push hard now to reduce the case numbers or it will just prolong the pain.

Wtf would a “curfew” actually achieve? I’m willing to accept it if there is a benefit from it, but it seems to me that it would only serve to push all mingling into daylight hours. Is there evidence that covid is spreading particularly rapidly at night? 

[waltere]

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Seems a waste to give it all to one person

 

 

 

Out of upvotes, but I chuckled at this

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Wtf would a “curfew” actually achieve? I’m willing to accept it if there is a benefit from it, but it seems to me that it would only serve to push all mingling into daylight hours. Is there evidence that covid is spreading particularly rapidly at night? 

Each and every one of those countries below the UK has a curfew. 

Similarly I recall at the beginning the mask-countries were pretty much all doing better than the non-mask countries.

[Simsy]

6 minutes ago, Gingerfish79 said:

Probably a Brexit poll, but it’s clear Labour have stalled since last summer.

What did the lib dems do?

[stuartbert two hats]

1 minute ago, Simsy said:

What did the lib dems do?

Nothing

[squirrelarmy]

Just now, Simsy said:

What did the lib dems do?

They sent a tweet and people were reminded that they still existed. 

[DeanoL]

2 hours ago, efcfanwirral said:

But you personally follow the rules in place because you know it's the right thing to do in a pandemic. You know why the rules are in place despite what the government says or does

 

50 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Good point and one I meant to raise earlier.
 

@DeanoLthe economic cost of closing schools is the millions of parents who now need to take time off work to stay at home with their kids. Obviously many are working from home anyway so it’s a non-issue for them because they can stick the kids channel on TV and crack on with emails. But for those who can’t WFH, they would need to take weeks and months off.

That's a fair point, and I touched on it a bit with the fact that when schools were closed the first time, the whole "WFH if you can, furlough if not" thing was more widely applied. It still wasn't a legal requirement but more companies seemed to be on board, mostly as it was assumed it would be fairly short term, and government were paying people's wages. It's a lot trickier now as so many companies are not far from major issues even with furlough.

Though I would argue that if we do as I suggested, and move 4 weeks from the summer holidays to now, then you also just move the problem parents have from summer to now. I mean the kids are off for 2 weeks easter, 2 weeks Christmas, 6 weeks summer and 3-6 weeks more half term in a regular year. Parents have to deal with childcare then, there's not enough annual leave to cover that under normal circumstances. I guess some of the options for dealing with that don't exist in the pandemic though.

Just now, st dan said:

I really think they should consider allowing two households to ‘bubble’ - I think you’d actually get far better compliance and people sticking to the rules this way, as many simply don’t like being told they cannot see anybody parents, children etc. 
Obviously would not apply to those that are vulnerable. 

It's going to depend on how they want to do it. Lots of measures being suggested: travel restrictions, curfews, etc. don't actually solve any problems themselves. All they do is make it easier to enforce the ban on household mixing. They're useless without a commitment to then actually enforcing rules we haven't yet enforced. If you're going that route, giving any leeway to people to have a reason to be out doesn't help.

But if they're not willing to do that, it's a pretty good idea.

[Fuzzy Afro]

2 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Each and every one of those countries below the UK has a curfew. 

Similarly I recall at the beginning the mask-countries were pretty much all doing better than the non-mask countries.

Do you have any evidence that those countries are doing well because of their curfews? Correlation doesn’t mean causation. 

[Homer]

10 minutes ago, parsonjack said:

 

Look at that massive prick (someone had to go for it).

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Do you have any evidence that those countries are doing well because of their curfews? Correlation doesn’t mean causation. 

It would be a very grave mistake only to wait to act when we have evidence...

Masks - case in point.

We need to throw the kitchen sink at this.

[Fuzzy Afro]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

 

That's a fair point, and I touched on it a bit with the fact that when schools were closed the first time, the whole "WFH if you can, furlough if not" thing was more widely applied. It still wasn't a legal requirement but more companies seemed to be on board, mostly as it was assumed it would be fairly short term, and government were paying people's wages. It's a lot trickier now as so many companies are not far from major issues even with furlough.

Though I would argue that if we do as I suggested, and move 4 weeks from the summer holidays to now, then you also just move the problem parents have from summer to now. I mean the kids are off for 2 weeks easter, 2 weeks Christmas, 6 weeks summer and 3-6 weeks more half term in a regular year. Parents have to deal with childcare then, there's not enough annual leave to cover that under normal circumstances. I guess some of the options for dealing with that don't exist in the pandemic though.

It's going to depend on how they want to do it. Lots of measures being suggested: travel restrictions, curfews, etc. don't actually solve any problems themselves. All they do is make it easier to enforce the ban on household mixing. They're useless without a commitment to then actually enforcing rules we haven't yet enforced. If you're going that route, giving any leeway to people to have a reason to be out doesn't help.

But if they're not willing to do that, it's a pretty good idea.

Again this was never really a thing. There was a misconception in lockdown1 that the government said “only go to work if you’re a key worker, otherwise work from home if you can or otherwise take furlough”

 

Sectors like manufacturing and construction were permitted to continue throughout. Although many businesses decided to close and made use of the furlough scheme. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

Just now, xxialac said:

It would be a very grave mistake only to wait to act when we have evidence...

Masks - case in point.

We need to throw the kitchen sink at this.

I’d be fine with a curfew if it works. I just fail to understand the logic behind it. 

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

I’d be fine with a curfew if it works. I just fail to understand the logic behind it. 

1) People behave differently late at night, drink more and when they drink, they drop their guard - increasing infections.

2) People are not used to curfews. Introducing them is a signal that people need to be more cautious and that the risks have gone up (a nudge technique to influence behaviour).