When will this shit end?

[dotdash79]

Stop me if you have heard this one before …..

 

[Justiceforcedave]

6 minutes ago, dotdash79 said:

Stop me if you have heard this one before …..

 

Good luck to them trying to pop that genie back into the bottle.

Sorry mate! Your London Pret A Manger's are fucked.

[zahidf]

8 minutes ago, dotdash79 said:

Stop me if you have heard this one before …..

 

"govt acknowledges it can't tell private companies what to do".... says the article.

[HalfAnIdiot]

11 minutes ago, dotdash79 said:

Stop me if you have heard this one before …..

 

"Ultimately I trust people and businesses to make the right decisions for themselves" 

Arrogant tosser. I don't give a fuck who or what you trust. I certainly don't trust you. 

[Zoo Music Girl]

31 minutes ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

"Ultimately I trust people and businesses to make the right decisions for themselves" 

Arrogant tosser. I don't give a fuck who or what you trust. I certainly don't trust you. 

This. Fuck Sunak.

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

4 hours ago, DeanoL said:

In normal times. Speak to doctors and nurses.

The NHS isn't just a machine. It's a load of human beings, human beings that have been under intense stress and pressure for over a year now. It's not just a case of saying "capacity is X, as long as we're below X, it's fine".

Think of the busiest, most high pressure week you've ever had at work. Now imagine working that week for a year straight. Then just when it comes to an end people start going "nah it's fine, they've shown they can do this, let's keep the pressure up".

I'm not saying that's a reason to stay shut down, or delay reopening or anything like that. But it's may be a reason to think about what you're saying and how you're framing it. It's people, not mechanisms. People can flex, and work extra hours, but only to a point and only for so long.

Beds are blocked in the NHS all year round because they can't get people out of hospital that is a pressure on the NHS and it impacts patients.

People are part of a mechanism we could build more physical capacity and have more beds but you have to be able to staff them if you could staff them what do you then do with these staff which when according to you there isn't pressure on the NHS? Pay them look at empty beds? Hire season staff? 

THe NHS hasn't been at breaking point for 18 months solid parts of the NHS have had really really terrible times of it but the NHS as an entire ecosystem is not about to collapse. 

At the height of the pandemic in London 999 calls were answered by neighboring ambulance services and neighboring services had assets in London responding to 999 calls that is how the system is designed to flex and that is not the present situation. 

The elephant in the room is how do you stop people self isolating and therefore not answering 999 calls or emergency services having to isolate just incase they become infectious. 

 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

1 hour ago, dotdash79 said:

In around 2010 the nhs was able to operate at around 85% capacity in Summer and closer to 95% in winter. This mean if operations or procedures were cancelled in winter then they could be done in the summer. 
 

as part of austerity that spare capacity was removed as “efficiently savings”. 

Despite an 11% reduction in bed numbers, bed occupancy rate rose by 1% though. 

The NHS is amazing but if you gave it a blank cheque it could still spend more and you can't run any public service like that it just doesn't work.

Edited July 8, 2021 by RobertProsineckisLighter

[Guest]

7 hours ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

"Ultimately I trust people and businesses to make the right decisions for themselves" 

Arrogant tosser. I don't give a fuck who or what you trust. I certainly don't trust you. 

Ultimately it’ll be about Sunak’s friends that are losing money by having these offices buildings empty. They are stuck though they don’t want to have a ‘government dictate’ telling people to WFH so they can’t then tell people to go back to offices either. 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

15 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Ultimately it’ll be about Sunak’s friends that are losing money by having these offices buildings empty. They are stuck though they don’t want to have a ‘government dictate’ telling people to WFH so they can’t then tell people to go back to offices either. 

The civil service are being suggested to aim to go into the office 2 or 3 times a week. 

It's also not just about his mates it's about business rates - which your local council gets to keep some of to out towards local services. Less commercial premises, less rates, less money for council's, less services for those who need them most. 

[zahidf]

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/new-covid-19-variant-may-have-emerged-in-north-east-surge-1094420/amp

 

3 days before the reopening decision and they've found a new variant!

I'm sure the news will be picked up fake SAGE soon and they'll be 30 tweet threads saying why we should all double.mask and stay away from people for a couple more years. They must be rubbing their hands with glee

Edited July 9, 2021 by zahidf

[sisco]

6 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

The civil service are being suggested to aim to go into the office 2 or 3 times a week. 

It's also not just about his mates it's about business rates - which your local council gets to keep some of to out towards local services. Less commercial premises, less rates, less money for council's, less services for those who need them most. 

Depends what part/role.  We’re introducing Hybrid working, no particulars on days in the office have been recommended/agreed.  A document is being produced at the moment 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

5 minutes ago, sisco said:

Depends what part/role.  We’re introducing Hybrid working, no particulars on days in the office have been recommended/agreed.  A document is being produced at the moment 

Yep seems to be that central government is catching is catching up with local government in that regard now. 

[Ryan1984]

9 hours ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I think it may, but as I think other people were getting at, the football has been a pretty good testing ground for a looser regime.

 

It may surprise a few on here, but I'm occasionally prone to wild outbursts of optimism (you can find me being wrong in my hopeful predictions many times on this thread). So I'm going to predict the next loosening will raise the ceiling, but not by much and then cases will drop. The models are being pessimistic and everything will be fine.

I think this might be the government’s plan. Open up everything during the summer months and let the wave hit its peak, while they’re on their summer recess and can shirk responsibility again, and then come back while it all starts to level up - “Get Covid done”.

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

I think this might be the government’s plan. Open up everything during the summer months and let the wave hit its peak, while they’re on their summer recess and can shirk responsibility again, and then come back while it all starts to level up - “Get Covid done”.

If they aren't bodies in the street, they don't care

[steviewevie]

19 minutes ago, sisco said:

Depends what part/role.  We’re introducing Hybrid working, no particulars on days in the office have been recommended/agreed.  A document is being produced at the moment 

fortunately at my place it really has returned to how it was pre pandemic, we're only a small office within a biggish global company and focus is off us from head honcho ceo bloke in US who was panicing last year about empty offices and places like ours were set to be closed permanently. So, as long as you don't take the piss, people work from home sometimes...sometimes they gives a reason, and sometimes they don't, I usually don't. There are some who prefer to go in, others like me who don't, unless I need to get away from the family. So, today I'm working from home...mainly cause I want to get a long run done at lunchtime! As long as the work gets done and timescales get met then there isn't a problem.

[steviewevie]

36 minutes ago, zahidf said:

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/new-covid-19-variant-may-have-emerged-in-north-east-surge-1094420/amp

 

3 days before the reopening decision and they've found a new variant!

I'm sure the news will be picked up fake SAGE soon and they'll be 30 tweet threads saying why we should all double.mask and stay away from people for a couple more years. They must be rubbing their hands with glee

well, risk of new variants that are more infectious, or worse if better at evading vaccines, is going to be higher with more of the virus around. Christina Pagel was tweeting the other day about how rapid rise of cases in NE was worrying. She didn't mention rubbing her hands with glee though. Hopefully if this is a new variant, the vaccines are still good against it.

[zahidf]

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by zahidf

[JB15]

Tories’ beloved market forces will determine whether people will go back to work in offices. If the employees and employers want them to, they will, if it’s not right for the company or employer, they won’t. 
 

The Tories can’t have their cake and eat it. If it’s not good for companies to work at home, they won’t let their employees do so. Unlike the people on here who think people working at home are skiving, companies are very keen to get as much as possible from staff to survive and so if they don’t think they are by them being at home, they’ll call them back in from the 19th 

[Havors]

1 hour ago, Barry Fish said:

It's quite important people realise this.  It's not all about covid and there is a balance that must be had.

There have been quite a few kids catching Campylobacteriosis from petting zoo's in north wales (friends kids have caught it). Apparently their doctors have said kids immune systems are shot to shit and would normally not get sick like this. Especially covid babies who have basically never mixed and lived in environments that have been bleached to all hell. 

All the lockdowns have made people more susceptible to all the other illnesses out there.. its time to rebalance things I think. We really really do have to live with Covid. 

[efcfanwirral]

 

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

well, risk of new variants that are more infectious, or worse if better at evading vaccines, is going to be higher with more of the virus around. Christina Pagel was tweeting the other day about how rapid rise of cases in NE was worrying. She didn't mention rubbing her hands with glee though. Hopefully if this is a new variant, the vaccines are still good against it.

I think the big issue with these variants, for which there's no answer, is the amount of time it takes to truly work out whether they're more infectious/deadly/evade vaccines. If we're going back to normal-ish then there's a lot of time between discovery/investigation and finding out we have a problem, by which time it's too late.

If we were to find one with significant vaccine escape during a time of no restrictions, it'd be everywhere before we could do anything about it. We really just have to hope for the best on that 

[jimmillen]

1 hour ago, JB15 said:

Tories’ beloved market forces will determine whether people will go back to work in offices. If the employees and employers want them to, they will, if it’s not right for the company or employer, they won’t. 
 

The Tories can’t have their cake and eat it. If it’s not good for companies to work at home, they won’t let their employees do so. Unlike the people on here who think people working at home are skiving, companies are very keen to get as much as possible from staff to survive and so if they don’t think they are by them being at home, they’ll call them back in from the 19th 

I’d broadly agree with this. But for certain companies it seems the decision is being made more on the basis of the CEO’s personal opinions & ideology rather than a dispassionate analysis of productivity 🙄

Ultimately market forces will tell, if inflexible businesses start losing talent to competitors then it will drive change in the long run. Might take a while past the 19th though! 

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

I think the big issue with these variants, for which there's no answer, is the amount of time it takes to truly work out whether they're more infectious/deadly/evade vaccines. If we're going back to normal-ish then there's a lot of time between discovery/investigation and finding out we have a problem, by which time it's too late.

If we were to find one with significant vaccine escape during a time of no restrictions, it'd be everywhere before we could do anything about it. We really just have to hope for the best on that 

yeah..definitely. I mean, the vaccines have been pretty robust against all variants so far...and hopefully they will have vaccines in future for all possible variants, or differenct vaccines for dominant variants or whatever.

[st dan]

6 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

I think the big issue with these variants, for which there's no answer, is the amount of time it takes to truly work out whether they're more infectious/deadly/evade vaccines. If we're going back to normal-ish then there's a lot of time between discovery/investigation and finding out we have a problem, by which time it's too late.

If we were to find one with significant vaccine escape during a time of no restrictions, it'd be everywhere before we could do anything about it. We really just have to hope for the best on that 

I agree with you, but you have to accept that us being susceptible to a virus (whether that be a mutation of Covid or new one entirely) is part and parcel of living on this planet. The scenario you have mentioned is no different to how things were pre Covid life, and its how we got here into this mess in the first place. If we want to live and interact, then the risks will always be there. 

Edited July 9, 2021 by st dan

[jannybruck]

I work in recruitment and the genie is out of the bottle in terms of WFH – already we're seeing huge amounts of people shifting jobs and prioritising ones that offer either flexible working/hybrid/etc. One of the first questions people are asking now is if the business has WFH options.

Even if they're forcing people back in this year, companies will need to adapt long term or face a serious brain drain, basically.

[jimmillen]

5 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

I think the big issue with these variants, for which there's no answer, is the amount of time it takes to truly work out whether they're more infectious/deadly/evade vaccines. If we're going back to normal-ish then there's a lot of time between discovery/investigation and finding out we have a problem, by which time it's too late.

If we were to find one with significant vaccine escape during a time of no restrictions, it'd be everywhere before we could do anything about it. We really just have to hope for the best on that 

Spot on. This is the point everyone needs to accept: going for full steam ahead & reopening is a gamble.

From everything I’ve read, the odds are in our favour - vaccines seem to work against variants. And I can’t argue that there’s many economic and wellbeing benefits to reopening. 

But, but but… If the dice come up wrong then we’re fucked. 🤷‍♂️

We’ll just have to hang on for the ride and see where we are in a few months. I really hope we get away with it!