When will this shit end?

[gigpusher]

45 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I think any gloating about how much of a population have been vaccinated between countries (or EU) is just kind of shit, and pointless. We've all got to get to the same place as quick as poss, and there's only so much of the stuff out there.

Especially as there really doesn't seem to be that much difference for all the posturing about how much better the UK did it than the EU my best friend from back home in Ireland (same school year) was just a week behind me in getting her 2nd jab and most of my colleagues in Spain including many much younger than me have all had at least the first jab (when I say much younger one is 20 years younger than me!)

[BobWillis2]

9 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

The only sport I’ve really seen having full success with biosecure bubbles is F1 ? I was gonna say England cricket was doing well but that went to shit lately !! ….  Unfortunately I don’t think it’s going to be quite so easy doing biosecure bubbles because of the international nature of the events .. with athletes and teams mixing 

Cricket haven’t been doing biosecure bubbles this year. Only last summer. 

[AM91]

5 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

Especially as there really doesn't seem to be that much difference for all the posturing about how much better the UK did it than the EU my best friend from back home in Ireland (same school year) was just a week behind me in getting her 2nd jab and most of my colleagues in Spain including many much younger than me have all had at least the first jab (when I say much younger one is 20 years younger than me!)

Also most things have been open in Spain since March.. well in my area they have anyway. Could have a beer inside a bar etc

[efcfanwirral]

 

53 minutes ago, zahidf said:

It's probably not going to have any spectator's 

 

 

41 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Total disgrace if they cancel it after athletes dedicating years of their lives to training for this moment. Just do it in a bio secure bubble with no fans. 

Yeah if we can continue the Premier league with our issues over winter (I was convinced it'd be delayed a month during January lockdown) they can deliver an Olympics with no spectators.

[Justiceforcedave]

1 hour ago, MrBarry465 said:

Thats another economic factor I do feel people gloss over.

What happens when half the company is out at the same time? 

The business closes but this time with very little support... after all the onus is on the people now. Your business COULD be open after all.

[zahidf]

Heath Service Journal editor has called for us to be moved back into Step 2 immediately until next Spring

[fraybentos1]

26 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

Ah that old chestnut

'everyone I know this.....'

Horses for courses, everyone I know around my age 'early 30's' has a sensible level of concern. Whats your point? 

Not sure what a sensible level of concern is tbh. For your average 18 y/o a sensible level of concern is to not be concerned.

Just meaning although not everyone is double vaccinated yet I still think we should be pressing on and I reckon a majoirty of younger people think that too.

[fraybentos1]

27 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

It's not a disgrace at all.

I'd say the public health of an entire nation (Japan) takes precedence over some clay pigeon shooters don't you?

Have some perspective. 

Yeah cause that's a really sensible description of what the olympics is and means to people

[MEGABOWL]

23 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yeah...true...but the tories are so good at winning elections, even if that means just taking opposition policies that are popular...so they could just match labour promises by next election and then labour are left with nothing.

Good point

[MrBarry465]

1 minute ago, fraybentos1 said:

Not sure what a sensible level of concern is tbh. For your average 18 y/o a sensible level of concern is to not be concerned.

Just meaning although not everyone is double vaccinated yet I still think we should be pressing on and I reckon a majoirty of younger people think that too.

I just think saying 'people don't give a shit' is a bit presumptious is all.

You can have a level of awareness and concern, without resuilting to hysteria and also 'not giving a shit'. To me 'not giving a shit' indicates you are willing to infect other people and just be really careless. I don't know anyone like that, 20 or 30. 

[fraybentos1]

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Heath Service Journal editor has called for us to be moved back into Step 2 immediately until next Spring

😂😂😂 bloody hell

[DeanoL]

16 hours ago, steviewevie said:

 If opening more leads to higher R, then this means a bigger wave, right? And a bigger wave could mean more damage to people's health (and livelihoods).

Ultimately it's going to be the same size wave* but it's how much it gets spread out. As long as it doesn't get squeezed so much that it peaks above hospital capacity it sort of doesn't matter.

*Not quite, because there's the people who get jabbed in the time you take to delay any re-opening, but those numbers will be small enough to just be fuzziness around the edges. But might be pretty significant to you if you're one of them.

15 hours ago, steviewevie said:

 

It's interesting and I'd like to dig into the data but don't have the time - but as I mentioned a few times, in the first wave there were 7k excess deaths in hospitals, 25k in care homes, and 25k in private homes. So many people basically being left to fend for themselves when they needed hospital care. If that 3k peak is just 3k people that need hospital care, then it's (with apologies to NHS workers as it'll be a nightmare for them) easily manageable. But if that 3k is already factoring in leaving people to die at home it's a lot more problematic.

But we can't have a grown up conversation about that because the government and NHS bosses still refuse to admit that the NHS was overwhelmed during the first wave by a factor of as much as 7:1.

This is why we have this discrepancy of hospitals reporting on the ground that they're reaching crisis point, and the figures being nowhere near what they were in the first two waves.We can't use the first two waves as a reference point to work off because that means accepting 7 people dying outside of hospital for every 1 that dies inside.

[MrBarry465]

5 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Yeah cause that's a really sensible description of what the olympics is and means to people

Way to cherry pick a specific phrase from my post.

You know exactly the point I'm making. 

If the olympics means so much to people, why have most of the Japanese population been against holding it for months now?

Likely because priorities....

Edited July 8, 2021 by MrBarry465

[gigpusher]

14 minutes ago, AM91 said:

Also most things have been open in Spain since March.. well in my area they have anyway. Could have a beer inside a bar etc

Yep my boss has been sending photos of them out and about all the way along. Every meal, every beer. It's been sickening 😄 

[Zoo Music Girl]

9 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Heath Service Journal editor has called for us to be moved back into Step 2 immediately until next Spring

He is a bit of a bellend though. I've told this story before but I used to share an office floor with him and he used to walk away from his team and stand behind ours to take really loud phonecalls that made him sound important. So annoying.

[zahidf]

6 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

😂😂😂 bloody hell

Same guy whose response to scenes like this is WHAT ABOUT SOCIAL DISTANCING 

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by zahidf

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

He is a bit of a bellend though. I've told this story before but I used to share an office floor with him and he used to walk away from his team and stand behind ours to take really loud phonecalls that made him sound important. So annoying.

Yeah he's been complaining about scenes of people celebrating.  Seems to love the sound of his own voice a bit

[DeanoL]

7 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Not sure what a sensible level of concern is tbh. For your average 18 y/o a sensible level of concern is to not be concerned.

Just meaning although not everyone is double vaccinated yet I still think we should be pressing on and I reckon a majoirty of younger people think that too.

I dunno, I think a lot would factor into the concern - the thing is for an 18 year old death may not be a concern but getting ill might be. Can they afford 2 weeks off work? Have they got holidays, weddings etc. planned that they can't risk being ill for? It's an entirely different problem for sure but it'll all factor into how cautious or not people are being. If I was off to Spain at the end of the month I would go to the pub in the weeks before, etc.

[fraybentos1]

8 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

Way to cherry pick a specific phrase from my post.

You know exactly the point I'm making. 

If the olympics means so much to people, why have most of the Japanese population been against holding it for months now?

Likely because priorities....

I'm not cherry picking anything, that is the only description of the olympics you gave.

I guess things are bad in Japan atm and the public don't care much about it. That is fair enough if they think that, I really don't care. It would be shite without spectators anyway.

[DeanoL]

 

2 hours ago, MrBarry465 said:

Yeah, I think the reasons a few of them give me for not getting it just seem to get more and more nutty each time. Personally, I don't think a lot of the people who are 'anti vax' actually deep down believe some of the stuff they come out with. They just seem ill informed.

The weird thing is, I think a lot of the time being anti-vax is a selfish but sensible position. Not talking about the reasons they give to justify it, but just generally, with a sterlising vaccine, the protection comes from herd immunity. It's fine if circa. 15% of the population don't take it - if the other 85% do take it, you get protected anyway. So why be part of the 85% that takes the "risk", however small, if other people will do it for you?

It's a horrid position to take but there's a selfish logic to it that's undeniable.

What I wonder is if these people have actually realised yet that herd immunity isn't going to come from vaccines for COVID. If they've realised they're actually going to get it and likely get ill, to a greater or lesser extent, this time around.

1 hour ago, JoeyT said:

I must be missing your point entirely?

I think it's a fair point being made. Our brilliant vaccine roll-out didn't really come from some brilliant strategy of picking and choosing the best vaccines. It came from throwing all the money we had at it and ordering loads of everything. 

It's not that that's the wrong strategy, it's the right one, but we're ahead of the rest of Europe because we spent a lot more money on it than they did. So the question of what return we'll actually see on that is a legit one - we get to open up a month before everyone else, but we also get to be the test case for all of Europe. If it turns out our deaths don't spike at all others can go earlier, if it's a disaster we get loads of extra deaths and the rest of Europe knows to wait until later.

I dunno, it strikes me as odd that we're talking about needing to massively fund the NHS to increase capacity and people are saying "but where does the money come from" while applauding the vaccine roll-out as being world beating, when it was world-beating because we spent more money on it that the rest of the world.

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

 

I dunno, it strikes me as odd that we're talking about needing to massively fund the NHS to increase capacity and people are saying "but where does the money come from" while applauding the vaccine roll-out as being world beating, when it was world-beating because we spent more money on it that the rest of the world.

I assume you dont mean people on here? because thats not what ive seen anyone say that on here

[zahidf]

9 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I dunno, I think a lot would factor into the concern - the thing is for an 18 year old death may not be a concern but getting ill might be. Can they afford 2 weeks off work? Have they got holidays, weddings etc. planned that they can't risk being ill for? It's an entirely different problem for sure but it'll all factor into how cautious or not people are being. If I was off to Spain at the end of the month I would go to the pub in the weeks before, etc.

But if we dont get rid of restrictions, would those happen?

[MrBarry465]

7 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

 

What I wonder is if these people have actually realised yet that herd immunity isn't going to come from vaccines for COVID. If they've realised they're actually going to get it and likely get ill, to a greater or lesser extent, this time around.

 

I don't think they care about getting ill, they are of the opinion your immune system will always win if your healthy. The other day one of them was telling me you can cure pnemonia with onions..... 

They always seem to be mostly white and middle class which is the ironic thing. 

 

[incident]

3 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I think it's a fair point being made. Our brilliant vaccine roll-out didn't really come from some brilliant strategy of picking and choosing the best vaccines. It came from throwing all the money we had at it and ordering loads of everything. 

It's not that that's the wrong strategy, it's the right one, but we're ahead of the rest of Europe because we spent a lot more money on it than they did. So the question of what return we'll actually see on that is a legit one - we get to open up a month before everyone else, but we also get to be the test case for all of Europe.

We didn't end up ahead simply because we spent a lot more on it though. The EU bought an equally wide vaccine portfolio and per head likely spent a similar amount of money on procurement.

We did legitimately get there first in some key respects and that's why we ended up ahead - the contracts were signed earlier, allowing prep to begin sooner. The MHRA got the approvals sorted quicker. The EU also suffered because for internal political reasons they relied too much on the GSK/Sanofi vaccine which didn't make it over the line, and so turned down the chance to get more Pfizer doses.

The only ones we bought that they didn't are Valneva and Novavax, neither of which have been approved anywhere yet - and it's documented that the only reason the EU haven't bought Novavax is that the supply couldn't be guaranteed due to the UK contract being signed first.

[gigpusher]

10 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

 

I think it's a fair point being made. Our brilliant vaccine roll-out didn't really come from some brilliant strategy of picking and choosing the best vaccines. It came from throwing all the money we had at it and ordering loads of everything. 

It's not that that's the wrong strategy, it's the right one, but we're ahead of the rest of Europe because we spent a lot more money on it than they did. So the question of what return we'll actually see on that is a legit one - we get to open up a month before everyone else, but we also get to be the test case for all of Europe. If it turns out our deaths don't spike at all others can go earlier, if it's a disaster we get loads of extra deaths and the rest of Europe knows to wait until later.

I dunno, it strikes me as odd that we're talking about needing to massively fund the NHS to increase capacity and people are saying "but where does the money come from" while applauding the vaccine roll-out as being world beating, when it was world-beating because we spent more money on it that the rest of the world.

Thing is in most meaningful ways the Spanish have had a much better quality of life in terms of freedoms for months and I said we're a week ahead of Ireland for my age group. Hardly much to boast about. If we'd paid so much for vaccines that by March we were all back to normal and living our lives then yes bravo but for the sake of 7 days I'd rather the investment had gone into the NHS.