When will this shit end?

[zahidf]

Boffins want us locked up for around another 4 months or so

 

[MrBarry465]

13 hours ago, DeanoL said:

Except we can't control it with masks and a degree of social distancing because we're doing that now and it's growing fast. It's definitely an experiment but it was always going to be - someone was going to get people vaxxed and open up first.

(My position on this whole thing remains mixed: I still think it's fundamentally unfair that young people are having to take risks without having been fully vaccinated: it's not optional for many, many will be forced back to work - as those in hospitality have been already and I disagreed with that too - and can't feasibly choose to continue to limit their contacts. So I disagree on dropping restrictions on that basis, but from a scientific point of view I think the approach is broadly sensible.

From an economic point of view I think the mixed messages "don't wear a mask but wear a mask" are hugely damaging. Telling people it's dangerous enough you should consider wearing a mask, but not insisting other people wear masks, is the worse approach you can take for dealing with social hesitancy)

Yeah I pretty much agree with everything here.

I really feel for those people who are working in sectors like hospitality and retail and being given absolutely fuck all protection.

[MrBarry465]

1 hour ago, kalifire said:

Just back from getting my second Pfizer. Bracing for side effects but very happy to be fully vaxxed. What a fucking magnificent scientific achievement. 

Good stuff mate!

You based in Frome or Melbourne currently? 

I know quite a few people from Frome, they are all pretty anti vax....

[Nikky]

24 minutes ago, FloorFiller said:

Wait, why are Sabaton playing this?!

They always bring some bands. Sepultura cancelled so Sabaton is this year. They had in previous years The Cure, The Killers, Greta Van Fleet, Liam, Guns n' roses, Duran Duran... It's hard to book bands in Covid time. 

[kalifire]

3 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

Good stuff mate!

You based in Frome or Melbourne currently? 

I know quite a few people from Frome, they are all pretty anti vax....

I'm Melbourne based, but parents are in Frome so that's my Glastonbury base when I'm back home, hence the mention. I know one or two there who're hesitant. I wouldn't say anti-vax, more wary. I guess some people are just never going to get it, which is their call, of course. I think some of them will think again when they don't get the same level of freedom that vaccinated people will enjoy.

[MrBarry465]

2 minutes ago, kalifire said:

I'm Melbourne based, but parents are in Frome so that's my Glastonbury base when I'm back home, hence the mention. I know one or two there who're hesitant. I wouldn't say anti-vax, more wary. I guess some people are just never going to get it, which is their call, of course. I think some of them will think again when they don't get the same level of freedom that vaccinated people will enjoy.

Yeah, I think the reasons a few of them give me for not getting it just seem to get more and more nutty each time. Personally, I don't think a lot of the people who are 'anti vax' actually deep down believe some of the stuff they come out with. They just seem ill informed.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, kalifire said:

I'm Melbourne based, but parents are in Frome so that's my Glastonbury base when I'm back home, hence the mention. I know one or two there who're hesitant. I wouldn't say anti-vax, more wary. I guess some people are just never going to get it, which is their call, of course. I think some of them will think again when they don't get the same level of freedom that vaccinated people will enjoy.

are more people starting to get vaccinated in Australia now, or is still slow?

[kalifire]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

are more people starting to get vaccinated in Australia now, or is still slow?

It's still slow. Only 7.7% have received a full vaccine, and 25.5% have had one jab. The PM here has royally screwed up the government's advice (anyone under 40 can get AZ), which is now being openly contradicted by chief health advisers. We're due a big shipment of Pfizer but not until September/October. I believe the aim is to get everyone vaccinated by the end of the year, but it's not an official target in case it doesn't happen.

[MrBarry465]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

are more people starting to get vaccinated in Australia now, or is still slow?

As an outsider looking in (Australian/Brit National) -  Australia is in a really weird spot now. They were really the 'envy' of the world last year, but the vaccine roll out has been shit and it's really not clear what the exit plan from the whole strategy is. I for one will not be travelling back to visit family this year, if they still insist I quarantine for 2 weeks on arrival (even after double jab). @kalifirecan probably answer it better than me anyway as he is based there, but currently you cannot even leave the country without an exemption (unless you are normally based overseas).

If they start losing events like the Australian open (because players won't quarantine), then I think the natives will start to get pretty restless. 

[steviewevie]

men are getting infected much more than women at the moment apparently, I wonder why?

[MrBarry465]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

men are getting infected much more than women at the moment apparently, I wonder why?

I'd say it's likely linked to the fact taht men are more prone to 'risk taking' than women.

Same reason more men get caught speeding etc. 

[xxialac]

Thank God for, as Johnson reminds us every five minutes, having by far the best vaccination programme ever and so much better than the corrupt EU...

Er, what's this?

 

[Crazyfool01]

5 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Thank God for, as Johnson reminds us every five minutes, having by far the best vaccination programme ever and so much better than the corrupt EU...

Er, what's this?

 

Whilst I agree that Boris comparison is wrong surely the better comparison is total doses ? We are now at a stage where we are injecting the young and hesitant which wouldn’t be quite as high as the rest of the population … but it is still great to see the EU catching up 

[Supernintendo Chalmers]

2 hours ago, Nikky said:

For me today! First major event. Ok, lineup could be better but still for people who like to rave this is great.

Have a blast! Dancing in 30c sunshine in a 17th century fortress. Tremendous. Some great names amongst the headliners in there. Rave safe and report back! With pictures so we can live vicariously through you!

[zahidf]

10 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Thank God for, as Johnson reminds us every five minutes, having by far the best vaccination programme ever and so much better than the corrupt EU...

Er, what's this?

 

Oh god... I'm no tory fan but we are nearer the end of our programme then those countries....

He hasn't compared our programme to the EU for months. Isn't it time to let that bugbear go a bit?

[xxialac]

14 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Whilst I agree that Boris comparison is wrong surely the better comparison is total doses ? We are now at a stage where we are injecting the young and hesitant which wouldn’t be quite as high as the rest of the population … but it is still great to see the EU catching up 

Yep, I guess that was my point.

As of today, the difference between the UK and the EU total dose numbers are hardly any different, as the EU has almost caught up. And other countries have overtaken the UK.

So what has all the endless boasting about beating the world on vaccinations been about? How has it actually helped?

• In the end, the UK has by far the worst case numbers in the EU and the hospitals will be fuller than other countries this Summer 
• The vaccination programme hasn't rescued the economy
• The vaccination programme hasn't driven cases down. Yes, deaths are low but they're low everywhere in the EU.

Oh and he slagged off the EU's vaccination programme by implication as recently as yesterday.

Edited July 8, 2021 by xxialac

[Zoo Music Girl]

2 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Yep, I guess that was my point.

As of today, the difference between the UK and the EU total dose numbers are hardly any different, as the EU has almost caught up. And other countries have overtaken the UK.

So what has all the endless boasting about beating the world on vaccinations been about? How has it actually helped?

• In the end, the UK has by far the worst case numbers and the hospitals will be fuller than other countries this Summer 
• The vaccination programme hasn't rescued the economy
• The vaccination programme hasn't driven cases down. Yes, deaths are low but they're low everywhere in the EU.

Oh and he slagged off the EU's vaccination programme by implication as recently yesterday.

I mean, Boris is a prick - I don't think most people here would dispute that (a couple of Tory bootlickers aside).

[Crazyfool01]

3 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Yep, I guess that was my point.

As of today, the difference between the UK and the EU total dose numbers are hardly any different, as the EU has almost caught up. And other countries have overtaken the UK.

So what has all the endless boasting about beating the world on vaccinations been about? How has it actually helped?

• In the end, the UK has by far the worst case numbers and the hospitals will be fuller than other countries this Summer 
• The vaccination programme hasn't rescued the economy
• The vaccination programme hasn't driven cases down. Yes, deaths are low but they're low everywhere in the EU.

Oh and he slagged off the EU's vaccination programme by implication as recently yesterday.

Yep totally agree … although it looks like case numbers are rising across the eu now and they will just be behind us with numbers … in fact I’d say things are very similar there to here 

[Toilet Duck]

1 hour ago, Supernintendo Chalmers said:

I've tried searching online without any definitive success but I can't seem to find any simple data confirming how effective two jabs of the AZ vaccine are. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Or maybe our resident scientician @Toilet Duck would know?

Effectiveness is a moveable feast to be honest (depending on what outcome you are measuring it against). In terms of infection, lots of things influence how effective the vaccine is (what variants are about, what your behaviour is like, what your environment is, how fit and healthy you are, how long ago you were vaccinated (probably) and so on). For some variants, AZ looks to be at least 50% effective at stopping you from being infected, for others less so. But, getting infected and developing disease are two different things. The vaccines, including AZ, are very effective at stopping symptomatic disease (again, depends on the variant and your definition of “symptomatic”). But it looks to be north of 70%. If you get infected but don’t produce lots of virus as your immune system clears that initial infection quickly, then you are less likely to pass it on. The vaccines are also extremely good at preventing severe disease, hospitalisation and death (90%+ for the most extreme outcomes for all of them, but you will see the number fluctuate as circumstances change). But just like we can’t really accurately compare efficacy of different vaccines in different phase 3 trials, putting an absolute number on how effective one vaccine is overall is also quite hard to do (as the situation changes all the time). Our best indication of how well they work is to pick an outcome we want to avoid, let’s say severe disease, hospitalisation and death, and compare with what that looked like pre- and post-vaccination. In that regard, they are all excellent (especially after the full course) and really are the way out of this. 

[zahidf]

5 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Yep, I guess that was my point.

As of today, the difference between the UK and the EU total dose numbers are hardly any different, as the EU has almost caught up. And other countries have overtaken the UK.

So what has all the endless boasting about beating the world on vaccinations been about? How has it actually helped?

• In the end, the UK has by far the worst case numbers in the EU and the hospitals will be fuller than other countries this Summer 
• The vaccination programme hasn't rescued the economy
• The vaccination programme hasn't driven cases down. Yes, deaths are low but they're low everywhere in the EU.

Oh and he slagged off the EU's vaccination programme by implication as recently as yesterday.

The EU are bigger than us... as percentage of doses to population as against the EU overall, we are definitely ahead (if anyone cares about that)

So by implication, he said something complimentary about the vaccine programme and flew into a rage?

Your comments about hospitalisation really are a MASSIVE hostage to fortune BTW. You can't predict that. 

The times has a story today saying the UK economy is doing better because of the vax programme.

 

on cases, have you see the recent EU case jumps I posted a few days ago? And as you say, our deaths are a LOT lower now.

Weren't you saying in Jan we wouldn't get to the coverage we have done?

 

I dislike the tories but stuff like that is just a bit ranty

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, crazyfool1 said:

Yep totally agree … although it looks like case numbers are rising across the eu now and they will just be behind us with numbers … in fact I’d say things are very similar there to here 

Good point.

All those countries however are largely keeping precautions however on maskwearing, self isolation and wfh, so case numbers won't get as bad as in the UK.

[Crazyfool01]

4 minutes ago, zahidf said:

I dislike the tories but stuff like that is just a bit ranty

Didn’t come over as ranty to me at all 

Edited July 8, 2021 by crazyfool1

[Supernintendo Chalmers]

4 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

Effectiveness is a moveable feast to be honest (depending on what outcome you are measuring it against). In terms of infection, lots of things influence how effective the vaccine is (what variants are about, what your behaviour is like, what your environment is, how fit and healthy you are, how long ago you were vaccinated (probably) and so on). For some variants, AZ looks to be at least 50% effective at stopping you from being infected, for others less so. But, getting infected and developing disease are two different things. The vaccines, including AZ, are very effective at stopping symptomatic disease (again, depends on the variant and your definition of “symptomatic”). But it looks to be north of 70%. If you get infected but don’t produce lots of virus as your immune system clears that initial infection quickly, then you are less likely to pass it on. The vaccines are also extremely good at preventing severe disease, hospitalisation and death (90%+ for the most extreme outcomes for all of them, but you will see the number fluctuate as circumstances change). But just like we can’t really accurately compare efficacy of different vaccines in different phase 3 trials, putting an absolute number on how effective one vaccine is overall is also quite hard to do (as the situation changes all the time). Our best indication of how well they work is to pick an outcome we want to avoid, let’s say severe disease, hospitalisation and death, and compare with what that looked like pre- and post-vaccination. In that regard, they are all excellent (especially after the full course) and really are the way out of this. 

The perfect response, thank you, much appreciated

[xxialac]

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

The EU are bigger than us... as percentage of doses to population as against the EU overall, we are definitely ahead (if anyone cares about that)

So by implication, he said something complimentary about the vaccine programme and flew into a rage?

Your comments about hospitalisation really are a MASSIVE hostage to fortune BTW. You can't predict that. 

The times has a story today saying the UK economy is doing better because of the vax programme.

 

on cases, have you see the recent EU case jumps I posted a few days ago? And as you say, our deaths are a LOT lower now.

Weren't you saying in Jan we wouldn't get to the coverage we have done?

 

I dislike the tories but stuff like that is just a bit ranty

It's a riposte to all the flagwearing, chest-thumping nonsense on here a while back about how us proud Brits had smashed the EU on vaccinations.

It's only a valid boast if it a) holds up to scrutiny and b) has a positive effect.

Put it like this, I'd rather be in any of the EU countries' positions (in terms of cases and vax numbers) than in the UK's right now.

What a great 'success'.

Edited July 8, 2021 by xxialac

[xxialac]

9 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Didn’t come over as ranty to me at all 

That's kind. I guess what does frustrate me (probably to rant levels) is the suggestion that the UK vax programme is proof that Brexit was a good idea.

When we look back in the years to come, it will become apparent that it didn't help much (relative to others) and in any case we didn't have to follow other EU countries' path even within the EU, which Johnson lies about at every opportunity.

Edited July 8, 2021 by xxialac