When will this shit end?

[zahidf]

4 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

For anyone cares about facts then watch this...

it’s the whole thing on video.  You can see how the crowd grows and grows - you can see how the mood changes as it goes dark.  It looks like the police held back for a VERY long time.  Police placing flowers even as a line is formed.

No kettling as claimed

No social distancing by the crowd 

Yeah the Sun is a great source for unbiased news. 

Anyway, they shut those women up like you seem to be advocating 

[SwedgeAntilles]

Imagine watching that unfold last night and your first thought is "I'm off to eFests to defend the Met".

What an arsehole.

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

Imagine watching that unfold last night and your first thought is "I'm off to eFests to defend the Met".

What an arsehole.

Badge lickers everywhere

[jannybruck]

3 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

It’s a two hour video from a helicopter all the news agencies have access too.

You lied about the kettling that clearly never happened.

sorry the facts aren’t fitting your agenda.  This happens when you make things up.

I was literally there at the vigil, and they started to kettle people once it got dark. Have a seat.

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Any proof ? I can’t find any 

YOu calling Jannybruck and the other people attending liars?

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

 

No I called you a liar - because you did 

I have asked them for proof.

Their word is their proof. They said they were there and were kettled. What more evidence do you want from jannybruck?

[Punksnotdead]

3 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

The video shows something different.  If they don't have proof then I would have to say I  don't believe them

You are Piers Morgan and I claim my £5.

[Andre91]

Shit house country. 

[jannybruck]

1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

The video shows something different.  If they don't have proof then I would have to say I  don't believe them

I didn't have an overhead view and I'm certainly not watching an eight hour video from The Sun on it but the police conciously cramped the crowd up in ways that felt disproportionately intense and completely made it impossible for anyone who was trying to social distance, and also made it difficult for people to leave if they wanted.

Regardless of the legal or technical definition of it which I'm certainly not going to get into a discussion with you about this felt like kettling at the time, and I and everyone around me, without being able to see what was going on everywhere, assumed we were being kettled because the response felt completely excessive.

[Toilet Duck]

26 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Feel like they are jumping the gun, there won't be a connection and all that will happen is that the vaccine rollout in Europe will take even longer and the anti vaxxers will be happier

 

 

It appears to be connected to one particular batch of 1 million doses (and Ireland was one of 17 countries to receive that batch). UK hasn’t had any doses from this manufacturing site, so safe use in UK not entirely comparable. EU hasn’t administered as many AZ doses and is seeing a trend. It will likely turn out to be coincidence, but it’s entirely right to investigate. Post approval surveillance is how we monitor the use of all medicinal products. It’s nothing personal, we’re not having a go at your favourite football team, it’s simply how medicine is used safely. Personally, rather than undermining confidence, properly investigating something in the same manner we always would is more reassuring to me than sweeping it under the rug and saying “nothing to see here” simply because we are desperate to vaccinate everyone and get back to normality. We said no corners cut during development, why should corners be cut in post-approval use? Surely that would perpetuate anti-vax sentiment even more? Much better to investigate and rule out than ignore. 

[zahidf]

8 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

It appears to be connected to one particular batch of 1 million doses (and Ireland was one of 17 countries to receive that batch). UK hasn’t had any doses from this manufacturing site, so safe use in UK not entirely comparable. EU hasn’t administered as many AZ doses and is seeing a trend. It will likely turn out to be coincidence, but it’s entirely right to investigate. Post approval surveillance is how we monitor the use of all medicinal products. It’s nothing personal, we’re not having a go at your favourite football team, it’s simply how medicine is used safely. Personally, rather than undermining confidence, properly investigating something in the same manner we always would is more reassuring to me than sweeping it under the rug and saying “nothing to see here” simply because we are desperate to vaccinate everyone and get back to normality. We said no corners cut during development, why should corners be cut in post-approval use? Surely that would perpetuate anti-vax sentiment even more? Much better to investigate and rule out than ignore. 

Still  a very small trend isn't it?

I'm all for investigating it but I think suspending the whole programme seems counter productive. Suspend using that batch maybe, like some countries have.

 

This guy puts it slightly better than me!

 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

Still  a very small trend isn't it?

I'm all for investigating it but I think suspending the whole programme seems counter productive. Suspend using that batch maybe, like some countries have.

 

This guy puts it slightly better than me!

 

It's the same arguement as locking down early though - stop it becoming a problem if there is a chance of of becoming one. If they wait for more instances how many more people have been jabbed and exposed to it. 

Like when they paused the trial because of that Brazilian Dr surely better to pause it check it and then carry on if safe to do so. Like seems to be being suggested 

[Sasperella]

21 hours ago, gizmoman said:

? Is that a quote of mine? Even if I disagree with a particular protest that doesn't mean I think all protest should be restricted we already have laws to deal with criminal behaviour during a protest we don't need new ones.

Sorry, no, not you. Priti Patel I believe. Who is herself quite dreadful. 

[zahidf]

7 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

It's the same arguement as locking down early though - stop it becoming a problem if there is a chance of of becoming one. If they wait for more instances how many more people have been jabbed and exposed to it. 

Like when they paused the trial because of that Brazilian Dr surely better to pause it check it and then carry on if safe to do so. Like seems to be being suggested 

Dunno, it feels like some countries not using it for over 65s and the two dose with 12 week gaps. I'm all for caution but it feels.. over cautious to me

[stuie]

14 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

It wasn't kettling as claimed.  I appreciate you felt pushed together but that's down to the fact people wouldn't disperse when enforced to do so.

Last night it was claimed that people only could not socially distance because the police ketteled people.  It was a total lie.  The truth is the crowd was so dense you couldn't socially distance 

No need for arguments - just facts 

Barry Fish go and put your head in the fridge. I can’t believe you are even trying to defend the heavy handedness on display last night. You have misread the mood of the nation as badly as the met did. 

[steviewevie]

Cressida Dick needs to resign for having such a ridiculous name.

[Toilet Duck]

3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Still  a very small trend isn't it?

I'm all for investigating it but I think suspending the whole programme seems counter productive. Suspend using that batch maybe, like some countries have.

 

This guy puts it slightly better than me!

 

Yep, it is a small trend, and the risk of coagulation problems following infection is much higher (so even if this does turn out to be a real risk, it’s still lower than actually getting infected with the virus...GBS following flu shots was a known risk, but occurred more frequently following natural infection, so vaccination continued, and that would likely be the case here). I expect it to be nothing, but the red flag is that it’s associated with 1 batch in particular (I believe all doses we have in Ireland come from that batch as we haven’t been getting that many doses delivered!). That could mean that the vaccine is fine, but that there was a manufacturing issue that’s been missed (and why even have a small risk if this can be corrected). It’s important to check this (though the best way to do that would be to send some to the UK and administer side by side with doses there are no reported issues with rather than case matched prospective comparisons in vaccinated vs unvaccinated individuals, it’s a better control as everyone is getting supposedly the same treatment). In Ireland, AZ isn’t currently being used for the priority groups anyway, so the higher risk people will continue to get Pfizer and Moderna while this is checked out (and J&J deliveries are due to begin in a couple of weeks, slowly at first, ramping up in May and June 😁). I don’t have a problem with pausing to be safe. To be honest, AZ’s inability to meet their contractual commitments has cost more lives than a pause for a week or so while safety is confirmed (looks like now they will be 180m+ doses short on their H1 order in the EU, which is shocking). 

[stuie]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Cressida Dick needs to resign for having such a ridiculous name.

Superb trending hashtag though 😂

[gizmoman]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Cressida Dick needs to resign for having such a ridiculous name.

Bit of light relief for those that haven't seen it,

 

[gooner1990]

Unless I'm missing something were people told not to have the vigil yesterday? 

I have read a fair bit of it on this thread and Twitter and people seem to think that the COVID restrictions suddenly don't apply to themselves when its something they want to go to/support.  

I appreciate that the police got heavy handed which isn't nice to see, but as far as I'm aware the vigil shoudn't have been taking place to start with.

[Crazyfool01]

3 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Bit of light relief for those that haven't seen it,

 

Brilliant .. thanks 😊 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, gooner1990 said:

Unless I'm missing something were people told not to have the vigil yesterday? 

I have read a fair bit of it on this thread and Twitter and people seem to think that the COVID restrictions suddenly don't apply to themselves when its something they want to go to/support.  

I appreciate that the police got heavy handed which isn't nice to see, but as far as I'm aware the vigil shoudn't have been taking place to start with.

yeah, it shouldn't have, but it was always going to...so do police go in there and force people away from a vigil to a young woman killed by one of their own, or do they agree to work with the organisers to allow a peaceful vigil to go ahead with no trouble?

[gizmoman]

3 minutes ago, gooner1990 said:

Unless I'm missing something were people told not to have the vigil yesterday? 

I have read a fair bit of it on this thread and Twitter and people seem to think that the COVID restrictions suddenly don't apply to themselves when its something they want to go to/support.  

I appreciate that the police got heavy handed which isn't nice to see, but as far as I'm aware the vigil shoudn't have been taking place to start with.

We shouldn't be living under draconian laws that have no justification, the risk of transmission outdoors is minimal,

Lord Sumption,

"I feel sad that we have the kind of laws which public-spirited people may need to break. I have always taken a line on this, which is probably different from that of most of my former colleagues. I do not believe that there is a moral obligation to obey the law… You have to have a high degree of respect, both for the object that the law is trying to achieve, and for the way that it’s been achieved. Some laws invite breach. I think this is one of them.”

[BobWillis2]

3 minutes ago, gooner1990 said:

Unless I'm missing something were people told not to have the vigil yesterday? 

I have read a fair bit of it on this thread and Twitter and people seem to think that the COVID restrictions suddenly don't apply to themselves when its something they want to go to/support.  

I appreciate that the police got heavy handed which isn't nice to see, but as far as I'm aware the vigil shoudn't have been taking place to start with.

It was made pretty clear in the courts that this vigil was banned, but because the met “didn’t give them an alternative” they turned up anyway. 
Im not sure what mass gathering alternative they were expected to give to a banned mass gathering. 
FWIW I’m completely against the banning of any mass gathering outdoors. 

 

[Matt42]

1 hour ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

Imagine watching that unfold last night and your first thought is "I'm off to eFests to defend the Met".

What an arsehole.

I’m out of upvotes and I’m really disappointed I used them all up before I saw this comment