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Shangri-La 2019

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10 hours ago, Gnomicide said:

If your first thought when seeing there is a female only venue isn't "fair enough" then somethings wrong with your mindset.

100% this. I'd only add a single apostrophe.

I saw 'female only' and thought two things: 'good', and 'such a shame it's come to this'.

Personally, I think the problem with objecting to females having their own space is that it presumes some kind of base-level gender parity in terms of quality of life, that doesn't exist. To my shame, it took me a while to come to accept this. Like most men, I wouldn't dream of being knowingly predatory, invasive or even casually sexist. It was easier to project my own standards of behaviour onto other men and default to scepticism at broad-brush generalisations about what it's like 'as a woman', or 'what men are like'. It felt insulting to be included in that group because neither I, nor the people I know, are guilty of acting in that way.

Until I realised it's not about me.

The voices of women sharing their experiences of living in our culture are consistent and can't be ignored away by naval-gazing. Problems don't disappear into non-existence because they've don't personally involve us. We're inter-related and responsible as a collective for the society we live in; complicit in the worst of our crimes because that's who we are. And only through understanding, empathy, and speaking out in support of the victimised will we ever hope to better ourselves.

So when a poster drops at Glastonbury and one stage in an area full of stages in a festival full of areas decides to give women a breather from the day to day bullshit they have to put up with, I think 'good', and 'such a shame it's come to this'. If I think anything else, it's about how I can personally improve things so we move towards a place where can all just enjoy everything.

 

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So I've never done one of these Shangri-La headline sets.

What are the chances of me seeing all of Stormzy and getting past the SE corner queues to see Idles at 1am. Do we have any source on it being 1am start or is that an educated guess?

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I believe the Truth stage is to get an Extinction Rebellion rebrand - and will be the Tell The Truth Stage :)

 

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18 minutes ago, kalifire said:

Like most men, I wouldn't dream of being knowingly predatory, invasive or even casually sexist. It was easier to project my own standards of behaviour onto other men and default to scepticism at broad-brush generalisations about what it's like 'as a woman', or 'what men are like'. It felt insulting to be included in that group because neither I, nor the people I know, are guilty of acting in that way.

Until I realised it's not about me.

 

This is what I was trying to say last night, accept it puts the point across more eloquently and much better. The 10 pints probably didn't help me.

Vast majority of this forum are great people, and likely their friendship groups include the same sort of people who wouldn't behave the way we know some men can. So you're blinded to that because you're in a bubble of normal, decent people and therefore don't have that first-hand experience.

It's the same with racial prejudice, if you and your circle of friends are all white, you're not going to experience it.

Just because you don't see it in front of your face doesn't mean it's not there.

Gonna stop now as I'm just babbling and hungover and your post pretty much nailed it anyway.

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34 minutes ago, Deadendfriends8 said:

So I've never done one of these Shangri-La headline sets.

What are the chances of me seeing all of Stormzy and getting past the SE corner queues to see Idles at 1am. Do we have any source on it being 1am start or is that an educated guess?

The only way to be safe really is to probably miss the end of Stormzy. If you catch him all then you've got to get out of the Pyramid crowd and them over to the SE corner and you're probably going to be at the back of the West Holts crowd who are trying to get in the SE corner as well.

I dont think it will be too bad getting in but that stage is going to be rammed for IDLES so it might be difficult to get a good spot. 

 

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Some places are allowed to not let you in if you're too drunk.

Some places are allowed to not let you in depending on how you're dressed.

Some places are allowed to not let you in if they feel that you don't fit their view on the venue.

Sisterhood could just be renamed to Berghain in Pilton. 

Bouncer chooses who can go in and who can't.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Divein said:

The only way to be safe really is to probably miss the end of Stormzy. If you catch him all then you've got to get out of the Pyramid crowd and them over to the SE corner and you're probably going to be at the back of the West Holts crowd who are trying to get in the SE corner as well.

I dont think it will be too bad getting in but that stage is going to be rammed for IDLES so it might be difficult to get a good spot. 

 

Yeah I was thinking about positioning myself on the left side of the Pyramid and heading to the back during the last song to then dash over via brothers bar for a quick pint. Luckily only 3 of us going to see Idles so we should be able to bounce our way in when the set starts atleast

Thanks for this

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47 minutes ago, kingbadger said:

Vast majority of this forum are great people, and likely their friendship groups include the same sort of people who wouldn't behave the way we know some men can. So you're blinded to that because you're in a bubble of normal, decent people and therefore don't have that first-hand experience.

It's the same with racial prejudice, if you and your circle of friends are all white, you're not going to experience it.

Just because you don't see it in front of your face doesn't mean it's not there.

Also, even if there are people in your circle (or extended circle, or colleagues, or whatever) that are racist, sexist, whatever - you probably still won't see it, because they'll moderate their behaviour in front of you.  I've known a few people who I've thought were decent chaps, who women friends have identified as creeps, - they just waited for their opportunity when other men weren't around. 

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Well that was all a bit weird, seems a tad less dramatic today hopefully?

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1 hour ago, Deadendfriends8 said:

So I've never done one of these Shangri-La headline sets.

What are the chances of me seeing all of Stormzy and getting past the SE corner queues to see Idles at 1am. Do we have any source on it being 1am start or is that an educated guess?


I left Foo Fighters just before the fireworks went off and I was at the Truth Stage well before Ratboy came on - didn't seem to take that long at all  from memory (not that I remember all that much!).. 

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2 hours ago, Deadendfriends8 said:

So I've never done one of these Shangri-La headline sets.

What are the chances of me seeing all of Stormzy and getting past the SE corner queues to see Idles at 1am. Do we have any source on it being 1am start or is that an educated guess?

Piece of piss, just stick yourself on the left hand side of the field, as long as your nimble in the crowds you'll make it absolutely no bother at all.

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Yeah I got away from Radiohead and into NYC Downlow absolutely no problem the other year. 

In hindsight I should've just never bothered with Radiohead and spent my entire evening down SEC but that's besides the point. 

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Do we know what day The Damned are on and how hard it would be to get in and see them? Surprised they aren't on The Truth stage if that's bigger than Scum.

Edited by Lunabella

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3 hours ago, kalifire said:

100% this. I'd only add a single apostrophe.

I saw 'female only' and thought two things: 'good', and 'such a shame it's come to this'.

Personally, I think the problem with objecting to females having their own space is that it presumes some kind of base-level gender parity in terms of quality of life, that doesn't exist. To my shame, it took me a while to come to accept this. Like most men, I wouldn't dream of being knowingly predatory, invasive or even casually sexist. It was easier to project my own standards of behaviour onto other men and default to scepticism at broad-brush generalisations about what it's like 'as a woman', or 'what men are like'. It felt insulting to be included in that group because neither I, nor the people I know, are guilty of acting in that way.

Until I realised it's not about me.

The voices of women sharing their experiences of living in our culture are consistent and can't be ignored away by naval-gazing. Problems don't disappear into non-existence because they've don't personally involve us. We're inter-related and responsible as a collective for the society we live in; complicit in the worst of our crimes because that's who we are. And only through understanding, empathy, and speaking out in support of the victimised will we ever hope to better ourselves.

So when a poster drops at Glastonbury and one stage in an area full of stages in a festival full of areas decides to give women a breather from the day to day bullshit they have to put up with, I think 'good', and 'such a shame it's come to this'. If I think anything else, it's about how I can personally improve things so we move towards a place where can all just enjoy everything.

 

I'm just not sure that your first reaction to an area that excludes anyone should be "fair enough"? In fact I think that's nonsense, your first reaction should be to investigate the rationale for exclusion of anyone regardless of their gender, race, religion etc etc. 

For instance if we change the demographic in question from women to black people does the same logic follow? There are similarities in that black people have been systematically oppressed throughout history just as women have been. Statistically racist abuse is rife in society so black people are much more likely to experience some form of harassment or abuse in the same way women are. So does it follow that black people should have a "blacks only" area at Glastonbury where they can be safe from this type of behaviour without as someone said "a need to make a judgement on whether they're a seedy (read racist) bastard."?

Please note I am absolutely not trying to be obtuse or awkward here, I'm keen to know what people's feelings on this are. My concern would be that as we start to just accept whole broad demographics need spaces away from each other to feel safe and that dividing people is a means of integrating them or achieving equality we end up becoming more and more different, paranoid and suspicious of each other. 

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1 hour ago, gherkin8r said:

I'm just not sure that your first reaction to an area that excludes anyone should be "fair enough"? In fact I think that's nonsense, your first reaction should be to investigate the rationale for exclusion of anyone regardless of their gender, race, religion etc etc.

This particular investigation shouldn't be too taxing on your time.

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1 minute ago, kalifire said:

This particular investigation shouldn't be too taxing on your time.

Thanks kali, as you can see above I have tried to investigate it without any response other than yours which provided no insight whatsoever. 

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5 minutes ago, gherkin8r said:

Thanks kali, as you can see above I have tried to investigate it without any response other than yours which provided no insight whatsoever. 

It's because most hassle that women get is from men.

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1 hour ago, gherkin8r said:

For instance if we change the demographic in question from women to black people does the same logic follow?

This is a false equivalence fallacy- this is about a very specific thing and bringing in irrelevant whataboutery does no-one any favours. 

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1 hour ago, gherkin8r said:

I'm just not sure that your first reaction to an area that excludes anyone should be "fair enough"? In fact I think that's nonsense, your first reaction should be to investigate the rationale for exclusion of anyone regardless of their gender, race, religion etc etc.  

For instance if we change the demographic in question from women to black people does the same logic follow? There are similarities in that black people have been systematically oppressed throughout history just as women have been. Statistically racist abuse is rife in society so black people are much more likely to experience some form of harassment or abuse in the same way women are. So does it follow that black people should have a "blacks only" area at Glastonbury where they can be safe from this type of behaviour without as someone said "a need to make a judgement on whether they're a seedy (read racist) bastard."?

Please note I am absolutely not trying to be obtuse or awkward here, I'm keen to know what people's feelings on this are. My concern would be that as we start to just accept whole broad demographics need spaces away from each other to feel safe and that dividing people is a means of integrating them or achieving equality we end up becoming more and more different, paranoid and suspicious of each other. 

For what it's worth, I agree with you.

We should be challenging the behaviour of the men who behave in this way, not providing a safe haven from them.

Segregation isn't the answer to anything, in my opinion.

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3 minutes ago, LeeHC said:

This is a false equivalence fallacy- this is about a very specific thing and bringing in irrelevant whataboutery does no-one any favours. 

Its not whataboutery, its an analogy. I'm not claiming there is hypocrisy here, I'm asking people if they think there is cause for a hypothetical "blacks only" area at Glastonbury and if not how the logic differs from the case of the "women only" area.

I'm aware that no analogy is perfect but perhaps you can explain why this one doesn't carry any weight in your opinion?

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Isn't the idea that all the bands/acts will be female that day? As opposed to only females being allowed in?

Where would that leave people who don't identify as either gender? It seems unlikely to me.

And for the record, I fully appreciate women get a hard time at gigs some times but there are other ways to combat that rather than segregation, no?

 

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