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Shangri-La 2019

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1 hour ago, gherkin8r said:

I'm asking people if they think there is cause for a hypothetical "blacks only" area at Glastonbury and if not how the logic differs from the case of the "women only" area.

If there was an systemic issue of black people being mistreated in the same way, sure. But there's not, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

The issue isn't about who is and isn't being given a breathing space, it's what's happened to cause that to happen. One can usually tell who's on which side of the fence by their focus. I couldn't give a toss that I'm excluded from one stage for part of Glastonbury 2019, and happy that those who so often get a shitty deal from others in society can hopefully not to have worry about it while they're there. It's something to be pleased about, ffs.

Edited by kalifire

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2 minutes ago, kalifire said:

If there was an systemic issue of black people being mistreated in the same way, sure. But there's not, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

Did you actually mean to say that?

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Just now, gherkin8r said:

Did you actually mean to say that?

That the societal problems black people face, which undoubtedly exist, are different to those that women do? Yes. This dance around the subject you're doing is a bit boring. Can you just get to the point and say what you actually think?

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People affronted by this: how did being excluded from The Sisterhood affect your experience of the last couple of festivals?

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1 minute ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

People affronted by this: how did being excluded from The Sisterhood affect your experience of the last couple of festivals?

They didn't know about it. So it didn't. And even if they were allowed in, theres a 90% chance that they wont go because its a small-ish venue in a very large area. 

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It's funny how it's mostly (only) men that are against a safe space for women at the festival. The women themselves all seem to be quite happy with it. Says a lot. 

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1 minute ago, chazwwe said:

They didn't know about it. So it didn't. And even if they were allowed in, theres a 90% chance that they wont go because its a small-ish venue in a very large area. 

Plus to find it you had to be looking for it. I think it's basically hidden.

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1 minute ago, kalifire said:

That the societal problems black people face, which undoubtedly exist, are different to those that women do? Yes. This dance around the subject you're doing is a bit boring. Can you just get to the point and say what you actually think?

You seem awfully paranoid. I just began by asking questions. I think its probably fairly clear that I believe dividing people is counter productive and I'm not convinced that a safe space is the answer if it excludes people based on gender. I don't think that is too hard to understand. I'm trying to understand the opposing view point and have asked for people to try to explain the problems with my analogy as a starting point for the discussion. Yet what I am getting back is baseless accusations of sexism and suggestions that I am telling women as a whole what they should be doing which is frankly ridiculous.

3 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

People affronted by this: how did being excluded from The Sisterhood affect your experience of the last couple of festivals?

I don't think people are affronted by it or worried about how it will affect their festival. That's a totally separate issue to whether or not the area is a good idea in general. 

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1 hour ago, H.M.V said:

Getting real sick and tired of this circular argument popping its head up every couple of weeks and men telling us what should be happening instead of what they are doing to make a difference. Yes, we get it, not all men. But for fucks sake, women still get leered at, groped, raped etc. So when was the last time you called some shitty dude out for his behaviour. We all know it shouldn't happen but while it still common place, please do us a favour and stop telling us where and how we should feel safe. 

 

I have no upvotes left but I'd definitely give you one if I did. Reading all these comments from people who have no idea what it's like to be female is making my eyes hurt from rolling them so hard. 

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Anyway been good getting the day in with y'all

I'm away home to ensure my dinner has been cooked properly and my clothes for work tomorrow are ironed to a standard I deem acceptable.

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2 minutes ago, barkley87 said:

I have no upvotes left but I'd definitely give you one if I did. Reading all these comments from people who have no idea what it's like to be female is making my eyes hurt from rolling them so hard. 

lol 

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1 minute ago, gherkin8r said:

I don't think people are affronted by it or worried about how it will affect their festival. That's a totally separate issue to whether or not the area is a good idea in general. 

Then you're ignoring the context of why some women may welcome it. It doesn't exist in a theoretical vacuum.

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2 hours ago, t0paz said:

Isn't the idea that all the bands/acts will be female that day? As opposed to only females being allowed in?

No, it's females+non-binary only.

Where would that leave people who don't identify as either gender? It seems unlikely to me.

They are allowed in.

And for the record, I fully appreciate women get a hard time at gigs some times but there are other ways to combat that rather than segregation, no?

Those are also being tried, but are not effective enough to render the venue useless

 

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4 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Then you're ignoring the context of why some women may welcome it. It doesn't exist in a theoretical vacuum.

Because some people welcome it doesn't mean it is a positive thing. 

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Just now, gherkin8r said:

Because some people welcome it doesn't mean it is a positive thing. 

Though the fact that infuriates gammons is a nice bonus.

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1 minute ago, gherkin8r said:

Because some people welcome it doesn't mean it is a positive thing. 

It might not be positive, but neither is feeling on edge from fear of being groped or worse. How about more is done to stop the people who do those things doing them, then such spaces wouldn't be necessary. I wish these kinds of places didn't have to exist, but unfortunately they do.

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2 hours ago, gherkin8r said:

Its not whataboutery, its an analogy. I'm not claiming there is hypocrisy here, I'm asking people if they think there is cause for a hypothetical "blacks only" area at Glastonbury and if not how the logic differs from the case of the "women only" area.

I'm aware that no analogy is perfect but perhaps you can explain why this one doesn't carry any weight in your opinion?

Because you are drawing a false equivalence- there is a very specific issue with women recieving unwanted male attention (from a very small proportion of men of course) in festivals and especially in tight crowds. This venue provides a place away from that if needed and more than that generates discussion- part of its value surely is the discussion it generates and making people think about why it might be needed.

Your hypothetical draws a false equivalence- there are specific issues that affect the BAME community but that has nothing to do with this discussion.

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13 minutes ago, barkley87 said:

I have no upvotes left but I'd definitely give you one if I did. Reading all these comments from people who have no idea what it's like to be female is making my eyes hurt from rolling them so hard. 

Yes - this - I’ve penned a few posts and then deleted them. Decide to save my energy today. But wanted to say @H.M.V - your sisters stand with you 💪🏽

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On a different note, disappointed the Earache Express tube train is gone. Was a great little venue in addition to being visually striking. Hope the new Scum stage has a bit of identity rather than being *just* a stage.

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54 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

He’s not saying anything like that.

Fair point. Let my frustration get the better of me.

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13 minutes ago, barkley87 said:

It might not be positive, but neither is feeling on edge from fear of being groped or worse. How about more is done to stop the people who do those things doing them, then such spaces wouldn't be necessary. I wish these kinds of places didn't have to exist, but unfortunately they do.

I agree. We can probably all agree that it would be better if such space weren't necessary, but I've never bought into that being an argument for not having them.  I wish people didn't burgle houses, but that's not an argument for getting rid of door locks.

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50 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

People affronted by this: how did being excluded from The Sisterhood affect your experience of the last couple of festivals?

Read about it in 2017, me and my partner ended up walking past it. I insisted that she should go inside, because why not. I went for a drink and checked out another micro venue in the meantime. 

She popped back out 10 minutes later and said "Tits. Tits everywhere". We laughed about it and carried on with our night.

She said she could see herself spending time in there if her friends were about, all music played by the dj at the time was sung by women she noticed. (rihanna, beyonce etc...)

 

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I think everyone has got a little hung up on The Sisterhood being a space where women can be free of physical attack, and while it is that it also something much more.  It's by and large a creative space run by women for women where they can feel and behave with a large amount of freedom.  Freedom to act, dance, shout, sit, stand, breastfeed and be how they feel.  It's about being free, if only for a couple of hours from male scrutiny, 'the male gaze, if you will.  Freedom from having to be and look attractive, sexy, demure, circumspect, be someone's partner, mother etc. call it what you will.

It's a place to celebrate being a woman (whatever that means personally) without ridicule, argument, comment. 

Oh, the irony of some of the comments on here. :lol:

And before anyone asks, the male space for this is the fucking world!

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