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stuartbert two hats

Shangri-La 2019

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Just now, Matt - Ed Banger Records said:

Studies have shown that 1 in 5 women have faced some kind of sexual harassment at a festival. I’m not saying that is any worse than outside of a festival, but I also think that having a small part of a huge festival as a space for women to express themselves and relax without the fear of what a man might do/say is a positive thing. I think until we can eradicate dickheads who make women feel uncomfortable from festivals then it’s a necessary space unfortunately. It may feel like a regressive step, but until everyone steps up to create a safe environment it is what it is. 

It's funny how lots of men on here seem to have a very different opinion to the women I know. If I was out in Birmingham city center on a Saturday night and my wife walked off on her own I would worry about her. At Glastonbury she regularly goes off to do her own thing and I've never worried at all (except about her own navigational skills). I wonder why it is that the women I know feel safe at Glastonbury but so many men feel they shouldn't?

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1 minute ago, bombfrog said:

Thanks for being one of the few people on here to provide a thoughtful argument. I can't help feeling that if it wasn't about the opposite gender then it would simply be described as a "safe space for all", but the fact that they are providing a safe space just for women would tend to suggest that it is the lack of men which makes it safe.

That's all just down to your assumptions. The many reports about women being sexually harassed/molested at gigs/festivals warrant there to be a safe space more than that of men. Until it becomes a huge problem for men there isn't really so much of a necessity for us to have a safe space.

Again, I wouldn't worry about it. It's only one stage.

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2 minutes ago, Gnomicide said:

There are many things at Glastonbury that are not for me. I don't care, let the people who it is intended for enjoy it. Not arsed, there's masses of other stuff for me to enjoy. You just seem to be getting worked up over something that really isn't worth worrying about.

The one point I always think back to is the discussion on what people would do if they could swap sex for a day. Women responded with the type of things blokes take for granted, walking through an underground carpark without fear, walking passed a building site without the sexist shite being hurled at them. Blokes would stay at home and play with their tits all day.

It doesn't matter, let women have their space without fear, without misogynist bullshit, go and do something else. Yes, the world would be  much better place if this wasn't necessary but it is and denying women this opportunity because you think it's wrong is pointless.

Isn't the first part of this argument what men used for years? The "there are plenty of other golf clubs" argument.

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1 minute ago, bombfrog said:

Thanks for being one of the few people on here to provide a thoughtful argument. I can't help feeling that if it wasn't about the opposite gender then it would simply be described as a "safe space for all", but the fact that they are providing a safe space just for women would tend to suggest that it is the lack of men which makes it safe.

That's all just down to your assumptions. The many reports about women being sexually harassed/molested at gigs/festivals warrant there to be a safe space more than that of men. Until it becomes a huge problem for men there isn't really so much of a necessity for us to have a safe space.

Again, I wouldn't worry about it. It's only one stage.

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2 minutes ago, bombfrog said:

It's funny how lots of men on here seem to have a very different opinion to the women I know. If I was out in Birmingham city center on a Saturday night and my wife walked off on her own I would worry about her. At Glastonbury she regularly goes off to do her own thing and I've never worried at all (except about her own navigational skills). I wonder why it is that the women I know feel safe at Glastonbury but so many men feel they shouldn't?

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it's because women have been telling me that such a venue has been a positive thing to them. I've heard that Glastonbury does feel safer than a town centre, but the women's only venue feels safer.  There's no contradictions here.

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3 minutes ago, H.M.V said:

Maybe stop taking it as an affront to your right on attitude and consider the many other reasons someone might need a safe space. Could be in an abusive relationship, had a flashback to something traumatic or any number of reasons. Not everyone has a feminist wife and a good moral compass. 

And I'll just leave this here. Maybe have a read. I also know people who have been assaulted at Glastonbury. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/entertainment-arts-44518892

That is interesting that it is so high. I still can't help feeling that the problem would be much higher at somewhere like V Festival which will also be included in those stats, not that I'm saying that it doesn't happen at Glastonbury, it surely does.

I feel I should make it clear as well that I'm not against the idea that this place should exist as a place that women can meet to talk about these issues and if they feel the need "have a safe space", but the fact that it's an actual stage where acts are playing at a festival, which is banning men is something we should all find disturbing, surely?

 

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1 minute ago, gherkin8r said:

Isn't the first part of this argument what men used for years? The "there are plenty of other golf clubs" argument.

Not really, because men only golf clubs were used to reinforce institutional sexism.

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1 minute ago, gherkin8r said:

Isn't the first part of this argument what men used for years? The "there are plenty of other golf clubs" argument.

Feasibly, yes. But they are different arguments. Where golf clubs men only so Gavin from accounts would feel safe?

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1 minute ago, bombfrog said:

That is interesting that it is so high. I still can't help feeling that the problem would be much higher at somewhere like V Festival which will also be included in those stats, not that I'm saying that it doesn't happen at Glastonbury, it surely does.

I feel I should make it clear as well that I'm not against the idea that this place should exist as a place that women can meet to talk about these issues and if they feel the need "have a safe space", but the fact that it's an actual stage where acts are playing at a festival, which is banning men is something we should all find disturbing, surely?

 

Would you like them to sit in silence? Are they allowed a DJ?

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49 minutes ago, Keithy said:

😀 it's based on solely that if they're doing an All Femme All Day takeover on Sunday then Bikini Kill feels right.

It absolutely does and now I'm not going to be able to stop thinking it! Do we dare to dream?

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1 minute ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Would you like them to sit in silence? Are they allowed a DJ?

I feel like this argument is kind of done. I'm not on a crusade here, I made one comment and ever since then I've been replying (mainly respectfully) to the various points that people have been making. It's getting late and I'm going to have to gracefully bow out soon.

I don't think we're going to agree about this anyway  as the argument has already gone circular. In my mind a stage at a festival which bans men from attending is sexist. There's no other word for it really. It's exactly what those of us fighting for equality are fighting against. It's a fairly simple argument and if you don't agree then I can't force you to. If you can't see the hypocrisy then I'm not going to be able to make you see it.

So, I'm clearly in the minority in my opinion (on this forum at least, not when I speak to people in real life) so I think I'm off to bed, or maybe to read some other threads. I much prefer talking about music on here!

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4 hours ago, bombfrog said:

Paying £250 to go to a festival and then finding out there's a stage full of acts you're not allowed to see because of your gender.

That's absolute bullshit, I don't care how you try to spin it.

A "safe space", at Glastonbury? I've literally heard everything now.

You know I'm gonna chime in on this.

I'm going with a female friend this year, her first time, her first 'big' festival, She wants to explore in the evening by herself so she doesn't feel like shes constantly following me to my favorite places. She is ridiculously worried about going around by herself because shes had many awful experiences with drunk/high guys. I told her I couldn't promise anything. 

She is overjoyed that there's an all girls stage that she knows if she feels weirded out she can not only gravitate towards to but feel safe at. 

A safe space sometimes is needed, its not a good thing that its needed but until things stop and female/non binary individuals can feel safe to go out and party by themselves they will continue to be a thing. 

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1 minute ago, Gnomicide said:

Feasibly, yes. But they are different arguments. Where golf clubs men only so Gavin from accounts would feel safe?

They are different arguments but there are analogous elements to them. I think it's genuinely frightening in this day and age that opinions are becoming so polarized and identity politics rules. I suppose I find it hard to believe that any significant number of women would feel unsafe at Glastonbury and if they did that they would be specifically frightened of men in general. I think it's sad and the idea that we need to have a stage where access is restricted based on gender would seem to be regressive. It's essentially a place where women can hide from men. I have never heard from and of the many, many women I know that have attended the festival that they felt unsafe. I'm not denying that it happens but it seems odd to me to have a stage for these women to attend. 

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Just now, bombfrog said:

I feel like this argument is kind of done. I'm not on a crusade here, I made one comment and ever since then I've been replying (mainly respectfully) to the various points that people have been making. It's getting late and I'm going to have to gracefully bow out soon.

I don't think we're going to agree about this anyway  as the argument has already gone circular. In my mind a stage at a festival which bans men from attending is sexist. There's no other word for it really. It's exactly what those of us fighting for equality are fighting against. It's a fairly simple argument and if you don't agree then I can't force you to. If you can't see the hypocrisy then I'm not going to be able to make you see it.

So, I'm clearly in the minority in my opinion (on this forum at least, not when I speak to people in real life) so I think I'm off to bed, or maybe to read some other threads. I much prefer talking about music on here!

Fair play, if you come to the meet I'll buy you a cider and we can talk about music. 

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2 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Fair play, if you come to the meet I'll buy you a cider and we can talk about music. 

Likewise. Before I go I feel the need to re-iterate one thing I said earlier which is that I think everybody on this thread wants the same thing, even if we don't agree on the methods of getting there.

🍺🍺🍺

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4 minutes ago, gherkin8r said:

I suppose I find it hard to believe that any significant number of women would feel unsafe at Glastonbury and if they did that they would be specifically frightened of men in general. I think it's sad and the idea that we need to have a stage where access is restricted based on gender would seem to be regressive. It's essentially a place where women can hide from men. I have never heard from and of the many, many women I know that have attended the festival that they felt unsafe. I'm not denying that it happens but it seems odd to me to have a stage for these women to attend. 

You're of course absolutely right and there should not be any need for something like this but read @chazwwe's post above. Isn't it great that his friend can go here and feel totally free? We'd all love a world where something like this stage would be completely unnecessary but as long as there are people feeling like Chaz's friend, then they should be embraced.

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14 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

It absolutely does and now I'm not going to be able to stop thinking it! Do we dare to dream?

Normally I'd say no...they're not coming back over for one date... but but they're coming over just for the two London dates.....so..... 

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1 minute ago, Keithy said:

Normally I'd say no...they're not coming back over for one date... but but they're coming over just for the two London dates.....so..... 

I'm not going to be able to stop thinking about this now!

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16 minutes ago, chazwwe said:

You know I'm gonna chime in on this.

I'm going with a female friend this year, her first time, her first 'big' festival, She wants to explore in the evening by herself so she doesn't feel like shes constantly following me to my favorite places. She is ridiculously worried about going around by herself because shes had many awful experiences with drunk/high guys. I told her I couldn't promise anything. 

She is overjoyed that there's an all girls stage that she knows if she feels weirded out she can not only gravitate towards to but feel safe at. 

A safe space sometimes is needed, its not a good thing that its needed but until things stop and female/non binary individuals can feel safe to go out and party by themselves they will continue to be a thing. 

Nice one on getting resale tickets, plus there's something very special about sharing a friend's first time at the festival! :)

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3 minutes ago, Gnomicide said:

You're of course absolutely right and there should not be any need for something like this but read @chazwwe's post above. Isn't it great that his friend can go here and feel totally free? We'd all love a world where something like this stage would be completely unnecessary but as long as there are people feeling like Chaz's friend, then they should be embraced.

Again I think we all want these people to feel safe, it's just the means by which we get to that point are different. Also what the concept implies about men is to at least some extent dangerous to my mind once we begin to accept these ideas without question. 

Maybe I'm naive but I'd have thought (particularly at glastonbury of all places) if a woman was exploring the site and was being annoyed by some drunk male she could tell either other festival goers (male or female) and the festival community as a whole would help her out. If it became more serious or threatening then security could be alerted. At that point I don't understand the logic of needing to go to a place where there are no men because one man behaved inappropriately. It validates a mistrust of men in general not to be abusive. 

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6 minutes ago, gherkin8r said:

Again I think we all want these people to feel safe, it's just the means by which we get to that point are different. Also what the concept implies about men is to at least some extent dangerous to my mind once we begin to accept these ideas without question. 

Maybe I'm naive but I'd have thought (particularly at glastonbury of all places) if a woman was exploring the site and was being annoyed by some drunk male she could tell either other festival goers (male or female) and the festival community as a whole would help her out. If it became more serious or threatening then security could be alerted. At that point I don't understand the logic of needing to go to a place where there are no men because one man behaved inappropriately. It validates a mistrust of men in general not to be abusive. 

Glastonbury is 200,000+ people - so the size of a medium-sized city. They can't regulate that it's just good, nice people. It ain't. Plus the bystander effect would still exist at Glastonbury as it would anywhere large like that.

And the bolded bit; it's because there is not one man there so there isn't a need to make a judgement on whether they're a seedy bastard. Just don't take it personally, is all - it's a refuge from all men, but not because of all men.

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14 minutes ago, Simpo said:

Nice one on getting resale tickets, plus there's something very special about sharing a friend's first time at the festival! :)

This will be my third time introducing someone new to the festival and it never gets old. Helps me appreciate some of the smaller things more and notice things that I might of missed. Also the reaction thursday afternoon to 'oh the 'proper' festival hasn't even started yet but this is amazing' 

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2 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

Glastonbury is 200,000+ people - so the size of a medium-sized city. They can't regulate that it's just good, nice people. It ain't. Plus the bystander effect would still exist at Glastonbury as it would anywhere large like that.

And the bolded bit; it's because there is not one man there so there isn't a need to make a judgement on whether they're a seedy bastard. Just don't take it personally, is all - it's a refuge from all men, but not because of all men.

It doesn't have to be ALL good, nice people though. I think the vast majority of people at Glastonbury are and that should should be enough. 

I'm not taking it at all personally, I'm just not comfortable with the logic being used here. Not going to drag this on any further however. 

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