When will this shit end?

[philipsteak]

21 minutes ago, zahidf said:

End it but with an option for a variant form to comeback?

Enough is enough

[steviewevie]

and this scientist arguing should keep restrictions till all vaccinated...

 

[dotdash79]

18 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

That’s not what he said at all, lol.

Pre-Covid it was a fact of life and post-Covid is a fact of life. Everyone wishes the best health for all family members and friends but we know it’s unrealistic. Don’t understand how you’ve reached this conclusion.

We know how to reduce deaths by covid, whilst you can’t prevent every death you can reduce it. There is a balance to be struck with other impacts. But if your ok with deaths then why wouldn’t you be ok with my question. 

[Supernintendo Chalmers]

21 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Whilst I understand the efforts to relieve fears quite a lot of people have jumped on the zero Covid bandwagon now. So it’s going to be a long adjustment period.

Thankfully, I avoid any social media outside of this website to get a sense of the wider public's perception and I'm happy to say that I don't know of anyone who believes zero Covid is the only solution. I'm surrounded by people who are pleased with the relaxation of restrictions and each are approaching it with varying degrees of caution based upon their own individual circumstances and beliefs. Common sense and vaccination. There's your solution. Unfortunately, we have too much polarised opinion again and because of that, yes, I agree, the adjustment period will be a long one. Longer than it needs to be

[eFestivals]

The tin foil hatters are keeping their heads down they don't have anything to say about the restrictions ending which they said would never end!

[Matt42]

18 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

Yep.

Effectively saying that you don’t want people to have their freedoms back is a dangerous game to play.

I’ve become very disillusioned with the party recently and can’t think I’m the only one.

Not the only one. It’s absolute clusterfuck. Terrible leadership. Terrible message. Terrible strategy.

Their direction is absolutely clueless, and they think that this “well if the tories fuck up people will vote us” approach will work.

Newsflash but people don’t vote that way. Labour need to focus on being a stronger party, rather than just sitting and praying for a Tory scandal.

[Matt42]

3 minutes ago, dotdash79 said:

We know how to reduce deaths by covid, whilst you can’t prevent every death you can reduce it. There is a balance to be struck with other impacts. But if your ok with deaths then why wouldn’t you be ok with my question. 

But there is no acceptable number to the zero Covid crowd? The government have got real and realised this is the best it’s going to be. If we reopened next summer we’d have the same numbers.

[zahidf]

Convid.... Ha ha ha ha

https://www.nme.com/news/music/morrissey-slams-con-vid-pandemic-society-as-like-slavery-in-new-interview-2986281?amp&__twitter_impression=true

 

Moz is at it again

[Matt42]

7 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

and this scientist arguing should keep restrictions till all vaccinated...

 

But not everyone is going to get the vaccine.

This is the problem that these guys have. They don’t understand the concept of personal freedom / free choice. They can’t fathom that not everyone wants to act as they do.

Every adult has been offered a vaccine. That’s all we can do.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Matt42

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Not the only one. It’s absolute clusterfuck. Terrible leadership. Terrible message. Terrible strategy.

Their direction is absolutely clueless, and they think that this “well if the tories fuck up people will vote us” approach will work.

Newsflash but people don’t vote that way. Labour need to focus on being a stronger party, rather than just sitting and praying for a Tory scandal.

you'll probably find a lot of people support that they think govt is beingf reckless.

People moan at labour when they support govt, and moan when they oppose. If you support the govt, and think labour are wrong, vote tory.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

But not everyone is going to get the vaccine.

This is the problem that these guys have. They don’t understand the concept of personal freedom / free choice. They can’t fathom that not everyone wants to act as they do.

Every adult has been offered a vaccine. That’s all we can do.

they've not been fully vaccinated.

[kalifire]

3 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Every adult has been offered a vaccine. That’s all we can do.

Has every adult been given a reasonable chance to get one? Genuine question.

[Matt42]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

you'll probably find a lot of people support that they think govt is beingf reckless.

People moan at labour when they support govt, and moan when they oppose. If you support the govt, and think labour are wrong, vote tory.

It’s not that they just oppose, but they need to offer an alternative. At the moment they don’t.

Their strategy has been “maybe it will take one more Tory scandal and people will vote us by default”. Which is not a strategy at all, and if anything will probably lead to an increase in Tory votes.

They need to be a better choice than the tories. Not a 2nd option on the ballot.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Matt42

[Matt42]

1 minute ago, kalifire said:

Has every adult been given a reasonable chance to get one? Genuine question.

Everyone 18+ can book their jab. Those who have their second jab in the calendar have the option to move it forward.

What more can the government do? They can’t knock on people’s doors and shove it into their arms? There are limits.

If some people can’t be bothered to book one it’s not to the governments fault. Nor should the population suffer the consequences.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Matt42

[fraybentos1]

1 hour ago, Supernintendo Chalmers said:

It would probably be better to have a read through the posts before jumping in like this, there isn't one person who doesn't want the restrictions to be lifted on July 19 

There are a good few in this thread 

[dotdash79]

3 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

But there is no acceptable number to the zero Covid crowd? The government have got real and realised this is the best it’s going to be. If we reopened next summer we’d have the same numbers.

It needs and honest conversation on both sides, but that won’t happen. I would say around the standard numbers for respiratory illnesses.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

It’s not that they just oppose, but they need to offer an alternative. At the moment they don’t.

Their strategy has been “maybe it will take one more Tory scandal and people will vote us by default”. Which is not a strategy at all, and if anything will probably lead to an increase in Tory votes.

They need to be a better choice than the tories. Not a 2nd option on the ballot.

well, they're not in charge, but Ashworth has said he would listen to scientific advise first of all, but more likely keep some mitigations in place until we pass the peak of this wave, and whilst we vaccinate more people...like masks.

[Fuzzy Afro]

3 minutes ago, kalifire said:

Has every adult been given a reasonable chance to get one? Genuine question.

Yes. The online booking system has been online for all over-18’s for weeks and appointments are plentiful. 

[kalifire]

Just now, Matt42 said:

Everyone 18+ can book their jab. Those who have their second jab in the calendar have the option to move it forward.

What more can the government do? They can’t knock on people’s doors and shove it into their arms? There are limits.

If some people can’t be bothered to book one it’s not to the governments fault.

Agreed. But unless everyone has had a reasonable opportunity to get a jab (without having to know about some queue hack), one could argue that people who actually want to get vaccinated will now have to live in a Covid unsafe society until their opportunity arrives. 

I’m not necessarily suggesting that’s a good enough reason to delay easing - it’s all about risk/reward balance - but anyone believing that any one approach to this is perfectly fair would be a bit short sighted. 

[steviewevie]

Just now, dotdash79 said:

It needs and honest conversation on both sides, but that won’t happen. I would say around the standard numbers for respiratory illnesses.

I think in a bad year we get about 20k deaths from flu? Something like that? So, that's what our hospitals can probably handle. So, that's 20k covid+flu. If we're going to accept a higher number then we might need more/bigger hospitals and more health care staff....which costs money.

[Matt42]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

well, they're not in charge, but Ashworth has said he would listen to scientific advise first of all, but more likely keep some mitigations in place until we pass the peak of this wave, and whilst we vaccinate more people...like masks.

I really don’t think this is a good example of an oppositional vote swinger. No one who votes conservative is going to switch to Labour because Labour said they would have made masks compulsory. 

[fraybentos1]

17 minutes ago, dotdash79 said:

We know how to reduce deaths by covid, whilst you can’t prevent every death you can reduce it. There is a balance to be struck with other impacts. But if your ok with deaths then why wouldn’t you be ok with my question. 

Cause it was a really stupid question ?

[Matt42]

1 minute ago, kalifire said:

Agreed. But unless everyone has had a reasonable opportunity to get a jab (without having to know about some queue hack), one could argue that people who actually want to get vaccinated will now have to live in a Covid unsafe society until their opportunity arrives. 

I’m not necessarily suggesting that’s a good enough reason to delay easing - it’s all about risk/reward balance - but anyone believing that any one approach to this is perfectly fair would be a bit short sighted. 

People aren’t stupid and at the end of the day it’s down to the person themselves. If they are part of a category where they are older and less used to technology they probably should have been offered / had their vaccine months before.

Most 18-24 year olds should have at least had their first jab by now.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

I really don’t think this is a good example of an oppositional vote swinger. No one who votes conservative is going to switch to Labour because Labour said they would have made masks compulsory. 

thought polls showed keeping masks in certain places was popular. Anyway, by next election they will likely not be talking about masks.

Edited July 6, 2021 by steviewevie

[Fuzzy Afro]

Silly mitigations like keeping masks compulsory will achieve nothing. Even under the current restrictions we are on track for a massive exit wave.

 

Let me make this absolutely clear, it’s a straight choice between an exit wave or reimposing lockdown. That exit wave happens whether you stay as well are now, relax partially or relax fully. So it makes absolutely no sense to delay reopening or keep minor mitigations.

 

The only two positions that make sense at all are to reimpose lockdown (or at least stage 2 restrictions) to get the R below 1 and suppress this wave, or reopen fully and go for herd immunity.