When will this shit end?

[stuartbert two hats]

24 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Anecdotally I heard from a family friend who’s a nurse in Essex last night that:

 

1) The hospitals genuine are very busy; and

2) Her one does have a lot of younger patients in their 40s and 50s compared to the first wave 

Just a thought - if we're vaccinating older people in the midst of a sharp increase in overall cases, then we would expect to see an increase in younger people being hospitalised. Both as a proportion of cases and as an absolute number.

[jannybruck]

The ZOE conversation has been had every single time it's shown a drop in cases, and they've always been reflected in official data a week or so later. Regardless of the demographic that uses it, it's absolutely been an accurate indicator of case trends.

Edited January 10, 2021 by jannybruck

[Crazyfool01]

37 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

doing the rounds 

The language she is using fits very well with the anti lockdown language I’ve been hearing of late ... it fits the agenda ... whereas a 30 second video clip can be manipulated either way ... if they hadn’t been breaking restrictions then fair enough ... this is the first signs of stronger action that was spoken about yesterday

[Matt42]

Just now, crazyfool1 said:

The language she is using fits very well with the anti lockdown language I’ve been hearing of late ... it fits the agenda ... whereas a 30 second video clip can be manipulated either way ... if they hadn’t been breaking restrictions then fair enough ... this is the first signs of stronger action that was spoken about yesterday

I agree we are definitely only seeing half of the story 

[zahidf]

 

[Crazyfool01]

33 minutes ago, Copperface said:

Anti lockdown/vax etc etc protestors. 

Yep exactly as I thought ... the faces even starting to look familiar now and the language definately 

[zahidf]

America isn't doing well

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

7 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Just a thought - if we're vaccinating older people in the midst of a sharp increase in overall cases, then we would expect to see an increase in younger people being hospitalised. Both as a proportion of cases and as an absolute number.

As a proportion I would guess so, as I. Theory less older people will end up in hospital if the jabs are as good as they say they are. 

In terms of raw numbers would that depend on how the triage works? E.g. in the future I could imagine a situation of we have more space now (due to less older folk in hospital, due to vaccine) so you are being admitted but in months past you wouldn't have been. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

14 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Yes it is. As per the below, schools went back on the 4th data below is from the 2nd.

 

 

That tweet is from 4 days ago... there is data published today 

[efcfanwirral]

 

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

Then instead of end lockdown it should’ve been tightened. But my point is that just because January is quieter month for some that doesn’t mean it’s the best month for one. 
 

Is that all the evidence you could find in 12 hours? It doesn’t really prove that people aren’t following the rules, it proves that some aren’t. The majority still appear to be doing so according to the ONS and polling data. 

The majority of the country wouldn't even consider filling in a poll so I'd say they're completely skewed in favour of privileged people who have time to waste on the internet filling in polls. There are huge amounts of the country who don't care about the virus, don't really know how bad it or just flat out don't believe in it. its a set of rules to many others who lack critical thinking skills to put together why they're in place.

They'll be round each other's houses all the time because thats just living to them - they won't be filling in polls online. 

Most of the internet is a middle class echo chamber - facebook comments on local newspapers and local groups are the best indicator of how the people I described are feeling; and they've consistently been angry, upset and resistant.

I know you want to blame the government solely but don't forget the size of their majority came from poor Northern areas voting for them against their own interests. They won't suddenly be compliant with lockdowns (which would indicate an amount of intelligence) if they voted to make themselves poorer. 

I know of people going into offices because they're bored, and socialising because "why not", the news depresses them so they don't read it then get depressed by a 'shock' lockdown announcement. 

42 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

doing the rounds 

I'm not against this being common policy for a few weeks if people are told to stay inside with no exceptions but properly essential workers and food/medicine but that's not in the laws right now so those scenes are ridiculous. 

[Copperface]

16 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

The language she is using fits very well with the anti lockdown language I’ve been hearing of late ... it fits the agenda ... whereas a 30 second video clip can be manipulated either way ... if they hadn’t been breaking restrictions then fair enough ... this is the first signs of stronger action that was spoken about yesterday

As soon as someone says 'Choose your sides' you know what you are dealing with.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-55609185

https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/19000036.covid-protest-held-bournemouth-sparks-police-response/

[Copperface]

8 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

The majority of the country wouldn't even consider filling in a poll so I'd say they're completely skewed in favour of privileged people who have time to waste on the internet filling in polls. There are huge amounts of the country who don't care about the virus, don't really know how bad it or just flat out don't believe in it. its a set of rules to many others who lack critical thinking skills to put together why they're in place.

get depressed by a 'shock' lockdown announcement. 

I'm not against this being common policy for a few weeks if people are told to stay inside with no exceptions but properly essential workers and food/medicine but that's not in the laws right now so those scenes are ridiculous. 

Not when they are the Stand up nutters, anti vaxxers and lockdowners.  

If we're talking about critical thinking we need to get away from placing too much meaning in out of context video clips. 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Copperface

[Zoo Music Girl]

10 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

The majority of the country wouldn't even consider filling in a poll so I'd say they're completely skewed in favour of privileged people who have time to waste on the internet filling in polls. There are huge amounts of the country who don't care about the virus, don't really know how bad it or just flat out don't believe in it. its a set of rules to many others who lack critical thinking skills to put together why they're in place.

They'll be round each other's houses all the time because thats just living to them - they won't be filling in polls online. 

Most of the internet is a middle class echo chamber - facebook comments on local newspapers and local groups are the best indicator of how the people I described are feeling; and they've consistently been angry, upset and resistant.

I know you want to blame the government solely but don't forget the size of their majority came from poor Northern areas voting for them against their own interests. They won't suddenly be compliant with lockdowns (which would indicate an amount of intelligence) if they voted to make themselves poorer. 

I know of people going into offices because they're bored, and socialising because "why not", the news depresses them so they don't read it then get depressed by a 'shock' lockdown announcement. 

I'm not against this being common policy for a few weeks if people are told to stay inside with no exceptions but properly essential workers and food/medicine but that's not in the laws right now so those scenes are ridiculous. 

I don't think this is really what you are suggesting, but it's way too simplistic to suggest poorer/working-class people are more likely to break the rules. Loads of people from that demographic are engaged and follow the rules. Equally loads of entitled middle-class people are not engaged and break them. Really don't think it can be set along class lines in that way.

[Crazyfool01]

9 minutes ago, Copperface said:

As soon as someone says 'Choose your sides' you know what you are dealing with.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-55609185

https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/19000036.covid-protest-held-bournemouth-sparks-police-response/

Also fits the twitter profile that shared it ....   madness lets prolong restrictions so we can have no restrictions ...

[duke88]

3 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I don't think this is really what you are suggesting, but it's way too simplistic to suggest poorer/working-class people are more likely to break the rules. Loads of people from that demographic are engaged and follow the rules. Equally loads of entitled middle-class people are not engaged and break them. Really don't think it can be set along class lines in that way.

Exactly - you’ll get a lot of middle class people who think the rules are beneath them. And they’ll think won’t be affected by it.

[fraybentos1]

30 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

If 1/3 have had it already plus the incoming vaccines- surely at some point later this year we are hitting herd immunity territory?

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 minute ago, duke88 said:

Exactly - you’ll get a lot of middle class people who think the rules are beneath them. And they’ll think won’t be affected by it.

Yes quite. By the same token friends of mine are working class (low-paid NHS and retail) and really struggling financially, but they take it seriously and follow the rules better than a lot of middle-class people I know.

[fraybentos1]

1 hour ago, Ryan1984 said:

And this is before those national hubs open up? How many could go through Lords cricket ground or Epsom racecourse a day? Must be thousands?

Not sure on specific numbers but it certainly can't hurt!

Plus more sites to come on and pharmacies etc beginning to be used. I am chuffed they are at 200k a day already- who knows where we can end up cause I think it is a great effort so far!

[Ozanne]

7 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Yes quite. By the same token friends of mine are working class (low-paid NHS and retail) and really struggling financially, but they take it seriously and follow the rules better than a lot of middle-class people I know.

Mine too, all my friends are taking it seriously. I'm seeing more NHS staff on social media being more vocal this time about people needing to follow the rules too.

[Zoo Music Girl]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Mine too, all my friends are taking it seriously. I'm seeing more NHS staff on social media being more vocal this time about people needing to follow the rules too.

I'm not saying everyone is taking it seriously as I'm sure there are loads that aren't. But I'm just wary of any distinction along class lines as I think that's too simplistic.

[Ozanne]

34 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

That tweet is from 4 days ago... there is data published today 

Yes I know. Both the data published today and previously on Zoe indicates a fall in cases from the 2nd and schools went back on the 4th. Which supports what I said that cases were possibly plateauing before some kids went back to school.

[efcfanwirral]

31 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I don't think this is really what you are suggesting, but it's way too simplistic to suggest poorer/working-class people are more likely to break the rules. Loads of people from that demographic are engaged and follow the rules. Equally loads of entitled middle-class people are not engaged and break them. Really don't think it can be set along class lines in that way.

Fair enough - what I'm saying is that regardless of class we live in a stupid country full of idiots. We never stood a chance of making it work. Same with America. 

[Mr.Tease]

57 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

We have no idea how long you keep the antibodies for, so we could easily have a situation that by the time this new 15% has had covid, the 15% who had it in the first wave have lost their resistance (it will have been 1 year) 

[philipsteak]

29 minutes ago, duke88 said:

Exactly - you’ll get a lot of middle class people who think the rules are beneath them. And they’ll think won’t be affected by it.

Yep, I doubt many of the Brits who buggered off from quarantine in Verbier where working class

[efcfanwirral]

38 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I don't think this is really what you are suggesting, but it's way too simplistic to suggest poorer/working-class people are more likely to break the rules. Loads of people from that demographic are engaged and follow the rules. Equally loads of entitled middle-class people are not engaged and break them. Really don't think it can be set along class lines in that way.

Also the middle class CAN stay in. Its extremely unfair and I totally get those who have to go to work just being like "well I should be able to see people if I have to work"

I also think many of the middle class who fill in these surveys are only saying they follow the rules but then don't...

None of this came across as I wanted it to- I didnt mean all working class are stupid (to be fair they resisted Corbyn when it could've been easier to be taken in by it - they know how it works) but I have infinitely more respect for working class than middle class anyway. Middle class virtue signalling is something I'm seeing (and probably doing) a lot of 

Edited January 10, 2021 by efcfanwirral