When will this shit end?

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 minute ago, Chapple12345 said:

 

Is this the actual case or just another unenforcable advisory measure 

Presume it's just advisory? They will be able to come back, but will be going against rules to do so.

[ShakeyCrash]

18 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

In a slight diversion of topic (rich I know)

Looks like the new corona strain is already regional prior to this news. It’s been found throughout wales.

This is very interesting to me. Our cases have continued to climb since we came out of lockdown which coincided with England going into lockdown.  Pinpointing this and understanding how and why may help.  Also why is it that the same places are being hit as were hit before? I think the people aren’t following the rules argument isn’t all encompassing and an effort needs to be made to understand this as until we do it seems we will just keep going around in circles.

 

 

[mike46]

1 minute ago, Chapple12345 said:

 

Is this the actual case or just another unenforcable advisory measure 

I believe the new law is no travelling from a lower tier into tier 4 - but it will be unenforceable like everything has been throughout. 

[stuartbert two hats]

1 hour ago, Matt42 said:

I love how intentionally naive you’re being. Come down off your high horse. People making decisions for themselves isn’t selfish. You do it all the time. Stop being a Puritan.

That's exactly what it is. Just because acting in self interest against the greater good can be morally justified, doesn't mean it's not selfish. Of course it is.

There are limits to utilitarianism, so it can be justifiable to act selfishly and there's a legitimate debate to be had about that, but you can't have that debate if we don't agree on the basic terms. Do you accept the term "acting in self interest against the greater good"? 

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Biologically we are wired to look out for ourselves and our loved ones, not society as a whole. We are not a large herd animal. 

probably why the tories keep winning.

[Jack.194]

13 minutes ago, Tartan_Glasto said:

At the risk of getting downvoted...I’m sticking to my Christmas plans.

In Scotland we’ve only to mix on the 25th, same as those in Tiers 1-3 in England. However, I plan to go home on the 23rd and return on the 26th. I’ve barely seen my mum this year and I think it’s really starting to affect her mental health now, as much as she won’t say it is, as much as my own. 
 

I know I’m not alone in this and plenty will be in the same position and still sticking to the rules but being home for Christmas is the one thing I’ve been clinging onto for months and I just can’t give it up. I barely leave my flat so I do feel the risk is minimal, however I know there will be plenty that will disagree with me. 
 

I’m sure many will brand me selfish, some may agree with me, but it’s just what I feel I need to do. 

I completely don’t blame you, and I am on the fence about doing the same thing.

My original plan was to go home to see my mom (who I haven’t seen barely at all this year) from 23rd until 26th. And I want to stick to that, but have no idea if I should or not.

I’m a teacher, and work with medically vulnerable children, and the idea of putting them at risk terrifies me, I genuinely have no idea what to do, I feel like whatever I do will be a wrong decision.

 

[Gingerfish79]

6 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Presume it's just advisory? They will be able to come back, but will be going against rules to do so.

It’s law (I think!) No travelling in or out of tier 4 other than for essential work or education. Peter Pandemic said this morning on Marr that it is for the police/transport police to enforce, but we all know that in practice they can’t.

Though it will be easier to police in a few weeks when we’ll all be in tier 4 anyway, which is a full lockdown by another name.

[fatyeti24]

28 minutes ago, Homer said:

If patronisingly banging on about my own virtuousness in order to gain the approval of strangers doesn’t make me The Chosen One, I don’t know what does 🤔

I know I speak for everyone here when I say we've all learned a lot from - and been humbled by - your selflessness.

[polgara]

What’s the betting that this government will prioritise vaccinations for tier 4 areas?

[Zoo Music Girl]

3 minutes ago, Gingerfish79 said:

It’s law (I think!) No travelling in or out of tier 4 other than for essential work or education. Peter Pandemic said this morning on Marr that it is for the police/transport police to enforce, but we all know that in practice they can’t.

Though it will be easier to police in a few weeks when we’ll all be in tier 4 anyway, which is a full lockdown by another name.

Agree, I think everyone is headed to tier 4 regardless.

In practice, Christmas aside, tier 4 isn't much different to me than tier 3. We have no one we can see near us so we're already on our own anyway. Just means that my gym shuts but classes were already cancelled in tier 3, which is what I use it for. Am glad I got my haircut last weekend though!

[steviewevie]

36 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Only a very tiny proportion of these people leaving London would be taking the virus home with them. You’re forgetting that. 

how do you know?

[steviewevie]

58 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Well your comment was total nonsense and added nothing to the conversation. Of course you can spin some clever argument that Christmas is some social construct which everyone makes a big deal of. By that logic Glastonbury is music in a field of tents.

but, Glastonbury is music in a field of tents.

[ace56blaa]

28 minutes ago, Brownie30 said:

No one here is justifying "parties, not socially distancing at a pub or going round friends' houses."

Sorry if it wasn't clear it was a general rant on the attitude towards the backlash on leaving London and people saying they shouldn't be criticized for making these decisions. 

Going home on a train will thousands of other people, to spend days in your home day for christmas and then go back to london for work or study, could be potentially worse than partying or not socially distancing at the pub, the virus doesn't discriminate was my whole point. 

Yes we need to balance mental with the risks, but if the risk involves potential spreading a new strain of the virus to a different part of the country and on public transport than in the majority of cases that risk should outweigh the need to return home. 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

7 minutes ago, Gingerfish79 said:

It’s law (I think!) No travelling in or out of tier 4 other than for essential work or education. Peter Pandemic said this morning on Marr that it is for the police/transport police to enforce, but we all know that in practice they can’t.

Though it will be easier to police in a few weeks when we’ll all be in tier 4 anyway, which is a full lockdown by another name.

You could stop anyone getting on a train with anything more than a work bag. Granted it's not a rabbithole I want us to go down. But there are ways. Hand out a few large fines? Lock a few folk up etc.. like I say big a route I'd like to go down but it's not impossible to deter people.

[Zoo Music Girl]

BBC saying Hancock said it will be enforce, but I'm sceptical. When would most people be travelling if they went on their original tickets? 23rd?

Police deployed to enforce travel restrictions

Transport Secretary Grant Shapps has just issued a statement saying extra police officers will be deployed to enforce the new travel restrictions in and out of tier 4 areas.

Following images of people leaving London last night, both by rail and road, before the restrictions came into force, he urged people to "follow the guidance and please do not come to a train station unless you are permitted to travel".

"Extra British Transport Police officers are being deployed to ensure only those who need to take essential journeys can travel safely," he said.

[stuartbert two hats]

54 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

 

It's just like people pissing on the ground at Glastonbury. It's easier or has better outcomes for them personally  but it potentially ruins it for everyone. 

Yeah, and if you have ended up in a situation where either through medical need or poor planning you would literally piss your pants if you didn't pee in the hedges, then you could rightly morally justify doing so. But it's still selfish. You're still acting in self interest against the greater good. Doesn't mean your action was wrong, but it is what it is.

[Crazyfool01]

10 minutes ago, polgara said:

What’s the betting that this government will prioritise vaccinations for tier 4 areas?

Prioritising everywhere then ? 

[Homer]

44 minutes ago, Sasperella said:

I'm out of upvotes but lol'd at this!

 

 

You’re forgiven (cash also accepted).

[Homer]

18 minutes ago, fatyeti24 said:

I know I speak for everyone here when I say we've all learned a lot from - and been humbled by - your selflessness.

As Trump said, I’m the most humble person I know. 

[Zoo Music Girl]

I was asking before if any attempts were made by the train companies to enforce distancing - this thread gives a pretty comprehensive answer!

 

[stuartbert two hats]

1 minute ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I was asking before if any attempts were made by the train companies to enforce distancing - this thread gives a pretty comprehensive answer!

 

Yeah, the answer is no, it was far worse than normal! That's why the train journey spooked me so much, the stuff of nightmares. Must be so hard for people living alone, with no car and trying to get to vulnerable relatives.

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I was asking before if any attempts were made by the train companies to enforce distancing - this thread gives a pretty comprehensive answer!

 

Probably massively understaffed to do it ... with many off sick and an unplanned rush 😞 

[mattiloy]

3 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I was asking before if any attempts were made by the train companies to enforce distancing - this thread gives a pretty comprehensive answer!

 

Dyou know what, I don’t even think its that irresponsible if you’ve been isolating to get on a train and go home if the train would be fairly empty.

But for example, during the last month there have been occasions when I’ve gone out to buy food or booze and if the shops are too busy I’ve left it.

So whats bad about this is that folks went down to the train station, saw the queues, got on the train, saw how busy it was and stayed on it. How bad do things need to get before you realise its a bad idea? What if the guy sat next to you looks a bit peaky and has an intermittent cough - do you get off then?

At the moment that I saw the queues I think I’d give my ma a video call, show her the queues and say, look lets just do a mega zoom xmas day marathon instead.

[Zoo Music Girl]

7 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Yeah, the answer is no, it was far worse than normal! That's why the train journey spooked me so much, the stuff of nightmares. Must be so hard for people living alone, with no car and trying to get to vulnerable relatives.

Yeah definitely. We agonised over whether to get the train for a while, back when the five-day rule was put in. I thought there might have been some distancing but looks like we may the right call as, even if allowed, I would have felt super uncomfortable getting a packed train like that to our families. Did look at car hire, was around £500 for a few days! So non starter.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

27 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Yeah, and if you have ended up in a situation where either through medical need or poor planning you would literally piss your pants if you didn't pee in the hedges, then you could rightly morally justify doing so. But it's still selfish. You're still acting in self interest against the greater good. Doesn't mean your action was wrong, but it is what it is.

For the analogy to work the festival would’ve had to have told those people it was absolutely fine to piss in a bush, only to change their mind and tell them otherwise when it was too late to get to the toilet