When will this shit end?

[Ryan1984]

1 minute ago, Simsy said:

Wow, people here suggesting nuclear war?

"Experience the spirit of Glastonbury all year round"

Jesus Fucking Christ.

People are just tense and edgy due to us being so close to an easing and things that are well out of our control. Hopefully there will be a resolution this week.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, StuMalinas said:

Na should just put a fuck ton of sanctions on them 🤪🤪🤪

 

For that to impact on them. We need to have something they want.wold beteatig w*nkers.

[stuartbert two hats]

2 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

The conversation needs to be had about whether we really need to vaccinate absolutely everyone before opening up. Especially considering the summer months. It gradually shifted from vaccinating just the first 9 groups and quite rightly so. But does that extend right the way down to 18 year olds? Do we really write off a whole year with social distancing to wait for what will essentially be 18-29 or even younger? We have to use that summer time wisely.

The official plan doesn't include vaccinating everyone in that timeframe. I know that various projections have been made suggesting we will, but the official plan has young adults vaccinated after the restrictions are lifted. The vaccination timeline isn't one of the criteria as far as I'm aware, it's all about hospitalisations and deaths isn't it? So if those stay low, then we'll open up even with substantial numbers of low-risk individuals unvaccinated.

[zahidf]

Says it won't effect the lockdown reduction measures as would effect May/June vaxs

[Radiochicken]

1 hour ago, xxialac said:

So far the EU had ‘exported to us’ 10 millions vaccines.

So far the UK has exported to the EU 0 (zero) vaccines.

The EU bashing on here is embarrassing in the light of these facts.

And guaranteed that if the roles were reversed there’d be screams of derision that the EU hadn’t delivered the vaccines we contracted.

Oh and Europeans are currently seeing higher case numbers because of a U.K. variant.

 

 

The UK - which is unlike this Gov - also got their arse in gear, funded the development, and secured a contract first. The EU have themselves to blame I’m afraid.

(And now i’ll continue speaking out of my depth...) but the EU are also using doses of Moderna right now, which we have a contract for too but was signed after the EU. I don’t see us asking for Moderna doses.

 

[xxialac]

2 minutes ago, Radiochicken said:

The UK - which is unlike this Gov - also got their arse in gear, funded the development, and secured a contract first. The EU have themselves to blame I’m afraid.

(And now i’ll continue speaking out of my depth...) but the EU are also using doses of Moderna right now, which we have a contract for too but was signed after the EU. I don’t see us asking for Moderna doses.

 

I'm sure there's some truth in the first point but it doesn't excuse all the aggressive anti-EU rhetoric.

And on your second point, did the contract with Moderna stipulate a certain number of doses to be received by now, which Moderna then failed to deliver?

If not, then it's not a fair comparison.

[efcfanwirral]

 

28 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

The official plan doesn't include vaccinating everyone in that timeframe. I know that various projections have been made suggesting we will, but the official plan has young adults vaccinated after the restrictions are lifted. The vaccination timeline isn't one of the criteria as far as I'm aware, it's all about hospitalisations and deaths isn't it? So if those stay low, then we'll open up even with substantial numbers of low-risk individuals unvaccinated.

 

26 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Says it won't effect the lockdown reduction measures as would effect May/June vaxs

Excellent. Hope cool heads continue on that - it's good to see official acknowledgement that it doesn't need to be everyone in a clearly briefed story. My concern was that frankly they'd overpromised based on their June hopes but it seems not 

Edited March 21, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[stuartbert two hats]

18 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

 

Excellent. Hope cool heads continue on that - it's good to see official acknowledgement that it doesn't need to be everyone in a clearly briefed story. My concern was that frankly they'd overpromised based on their June hopes but it seems not 

I get the impression the timeline seemed so generous to take account of the fact that shit happens like this. They may have said they would be willing to extend the dates if the shit hits the fan, but they really don't want to.

[Leyrulion]

51 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

 The vaccination timeline isn't one of the criteria as far as I'm aware, it's all about hospitalisations and deaths isn't it? So if those stay low, then we'll open up even with substantial numbers of low-risk individuals unvaccinated.

Vaccines are 2 of the 4 tests to continue on the lockdown plan.

But they're sufficiently vague that even if the timeline for all adults to have a first shot slips from July they could still continue. Was the original timeline actually September for all adults when they released this road map?

 

What are the four tests?

1. The vaccine deployment programme continues successfully

2. Evidence shows vaccines are sufficiently effective in reducing hospitalisations and deaths in those vaccinated

3. Infection rates do not risk a surge in hospitalisations which would put unsustainable pressure on the NHS

4. The assessment of the risks is not fundamentally changed by new variants of concern.

[zahidf]

 

[stuartbert two hats]

7 minutes ago, Leyrulion said:

Vaccines are 2 of the 4 tests to continue on the lockdown plan.

But they're sufficiently vague that even if the timeline for all adults to have a first shot slips from July they could still continue. Was the original timeline actually September for all adults when they released this road map?

 

What are the four tests?

1. The vaccine deployment programme continues successfully

2. Evidence shows vaccines are sufficiently effective in reducing hospitalisations and deaths in those vaccinated

3. Infection rates do not risk a surge in hospitalisations which would put unsustainable pressure on the NHS

4. The assessment of the risks is not fundamentally changed by new variants of concern.

Thanks for that, much better detail. "Continues successfully" really does have a lot of wriggle room doesn't it? I think 2 is proven, so as long as we don't fall foul of 4, then it's all about 3 - and as long as the unvaccinated are in the lowest of risk groups, then we should hopefully continue to see the hospitals empty even if nobody under the age of 30 gets vaccinated before autumn. Not that I think that will happen.

[StuMalinas]

1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

The EU don’t need to block experts to have a successful roll out.  This is political and if it happens there is no other way of putting it - it’s a hostile act.  If it happens it’s going to escalate quickly.  I hope the EU have more sense.

For once we need to stop pretending it’s always us.  This is a direct attack on this country.  

Wow you got to -34 quickly 

[OG]

The amount of absolute bollocks I've seen posted in the last few hours is amazing. For the last year this thread has been all about information and "doing the right thing" (with the exception of the usual w*nkers) 

Now its turned in to the Efestivals equivalant of Facebook Glasto Chat  

[efcfanwirral]

59 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

The EU don’t need to block experts to have a successful roll out.  This is political and if it happens there is no other way of putting it - it’s a hostile act.  If it happens it’s going to escalate quickly.  I hope the EU have more sense.

For once we need to stop pretending it’s always us.  This is a direct attack on this country.  

Big question is - what do you want to see done about it? 

[MrZigster]

Trade war then?

Who fired first?

Hasn't The UK reneged on a couple of trade agreements recently re Europe?

Is this partly retaliation?

[mcshed]

5 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

EU and UK don’t export vaccines , private companies do.  They can only block exports and only the EU have done this.  

Is there a huge difference between using a legal export ban and getting a company to sign an export forbidding contract?

So far in terms of stopping exports Italy have held back some of Australia's and India have held back some of ours. So all this anger at the EU should also be aimed at India unless some people have a vested interest in damaging the UK's opinion of the EU.

[zahidf]

29 minutes ago, mcshed said:

Is there a huge difference between using a legal export ban and getting a company to sign an export forbidding contract?

So far in terms of stopping exports Italy have held back some of Australia's and India have held back some of ours. So all this anger at the EU should also be aimed at India unless some people have a vested interest in damaging the UK's opinion of the EU.

The UK and AZNs contract has nothing to do with the EU though. 

There is a delay getting Indian orders, which isn't great clearly. But that's different to the EU situation, which is very much the EU publicly attacking the UK and saying saying that they are in the right to steal our vaccines. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

31 minutes ago, mcshed said:

Is there a huge difference between using a legal export ban and getting a company to sign an export forbidding contract?

So far in terms of stopping exports Italy have held back some of Australia's and India have held back some of ours. So all this anger at the EU should also be aimed at India unless some people have a vested interest in damaging the UK's opinion of the EU.

Well yeah we should absolutely be angry at the Indian government as well. 

[mcshed]

18 minutes ago, zahidf said:

There is a delay getting Indian orders, which isn't great clearly. But that's different to the EU situation, which is very much the EU publicly attacking the UK and saying saying that they are in the right to steal our vaccines. 

A spokesperson for Serum Institute said: “Five million doses had been delivered a few weeks ago to the UK and we will try to supply more later based on the current situation and requirement for the government immunisation program in India.”

Sounds like the Indian government is the source of the delay, so what's the difference?

[mcshed]

20 minutes ago, zahidf said:

The UK and AZNs contract has nothing to do with the EU though. 

My point is using your clout to get a company to sign a contract that forbids exports and using your clout to forbid exports is essentially the same behaviour. It's selfish but understandable given the situation. The only things that makes me angry about the EU's behaviour is the constant bad mouthing of the AZ vaccine and the absolute shambles of a roll out.

Wanting more jabs is a bit shitty but it's totally understandable. Our vaccine program is going very well so I think we should cool it on the anger.

[mcshed]

42 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Well yeah we should absolutely be angry at the Indian government as well. 

Yet we, and by "we" I mean both the reactionary wing of this thread and the majority of the British press, save their opprobrium for the EU.

[mcshed]

16 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

There is a huge difference in using commercial contracts and using export bans.  

Morally it amounts to the same thing. 

 

19 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

If the crisis deepens then a small nuclear strike on Germany.  Maybe take out somewhere no one cares about like Bremen. 

Ah so you're just a troll.

[JoeyT]

Israel...

 

[mcshed]

1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

UK have a right to ban but haven't pulled the trigger. 

But you'd support us if we did? 

[incident]

18 minutes ago, mcshed said:

A spokesperson for Serum Institute said: “Five million doses had been delivered a few weeks ago to the UK and we will try to supply more later based on the current situation and requirement for the government immunisation program in India.”

Sounds like the Indian government is the source of the delay, so what's the difference?

I've already explained the difference in a lot more detail once, so go back and find it if you want. The short version is - the Indian government want to use doses. The EU are not even in a position to use those doses any time soon so the primary short term "benefit" to them is to stop the perception/reality that the UK is getting further ahead.

I realise that sounds like ridiculous scaremongering but there's two factors that strongly support it - firstly because they've still not got around to approving doses from one of the main EU based factories which is now producing doses that are going nowhere (~10m doses ready to deliver within a week when they do approve). Secondly because despite already sitting on a crazy amount of unused doses (fluctuates between 12 and 15 million, currently at 13.5) their current usage rate does already broadly match supply. Granted, within that some countries are a lot better or worse than average but that's for them to sort out within the EU - Germany could send a fraction of their (1.7m) unused AZ doses to Ireland for example and make a huge difference there.

9 minutes ago, mcshed said:

My point is using your clout to get a company to sign a contract that forbids exports and using your clout to forbid exports is essentially the same behaviour. It's selfish but understandable given the situation. The only things that makes me angry about the EU's behaviour is the constant bad mouthing of the AZ vaccine and the absolute shambles of a roll out.

The UK deals are nothing to do with using clout or strong arming - it's that they include a lot more direct manufacturing support that started very early - the factories were tapped up before AstraZeneca even signed the deal with Oxford. Again, the details are already in this thread. Anywhere in the world with suitable facilities within their jurisdiction could have done that, especially the EU which has suitable facilities are sitting idle, but they opted for a more traditional purchase and supply arrangement. Actually, the EU did do something similar to that for the Moderna vaccine, hence we've not seen any supplies of it yet.