When will this shit end?

[xxialac]

4 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Jesus 55,000 cases and 964 deaths with a just-about-functioning NHS. January going to be ugly when it actually gets overwhelmed. 

Yet another days that just (just) dips under 1,000 deaths. Keeps happening.

Is it complete paranoia to think that the people in government responsible are delaying counting certain deaths so they can keep the number each day under the psychologically worse-sounding 1,000 number?

[Billy Corgan's Ego]

1 minute ago, xxialac said:

Yet another days that just (just) dips under 1,000 deaths. Keeps happening.

Is it complete paranoia to think that the people in government responsible are delaying counting certain deaths so they can keep the number each day under the psychologically worse-sounding 1,000 number?

Only if 'paranoia' actually means 'certainty'

[ShakeyCrash]

 

1 minute ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

That is the big you keep missing when blaming the government (who are not blameless). You must acknowledge that the decisions they are making isn't as simple as having skinny fries or chunky chips? 

Do you have condiments?  If so I'll go for skinny fries, if not it's chunk chips for me. 

[ShakeyCrash]

3 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Not too early to start....

And never to late to finish 🙂 

[Fuzzy Afro]

1 minute ago, xxialac said:

Yet another days that just (just) dips under 1,000 deaths. Keeps happening.

Is it complete paranoia to think that the people in government responsible are delaying counting certain deaths so they can keep the number each day under the psychologically worse-sounding 1,000 number?

I’m pretty sure this is a thing. There are over 1000 by specimen date on certain dates in the first wave, but never over 1000 by reporting date. Mind you some of the reporting is dreadful, I saw one just a few weeks ago where someone had literally died in March before the first lockdown even started and were only getting included in the figures now. 

[ace56blaa]

1 minute ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Jesus Christ Man. 

I keep agreeing with you that the government have got things wrong. Your view is that they keep ignoring people who know better, and are slow to react etc...

You talk like they have some magic wand to suddenly make track and trace the perfect tool for the job. That wand doesn't exist. Neither does the crystal ball.

Is the benefit of locking down earlier greater than the cost of not doing it? Is the benefit of closing schools greater than not doing it? Etc... Etc... Etc... All of these are the sorts of questions that the government has to balance out nobody else has to ask that questions. The NHS can easily say we need to lock the country down now because it is not their job to worry about schools, employment etc... Etc... 

That is the big you keep missing when blaming the government (who are not blameless). You must acknowledge that the decisions they are making isn't as simple as having skinny fries or chunky chips? 

The country is effectively in lockdown anyway and that isn't exactly working either. Been in effective lockdown (T3) since October and the numbers are on the rise again - who do you blame for that one?

Seriously shut up. A CRYSTAL BALL, no one needed a crystal ball, every expert and person with half a braincell sees everything coming before this government. - they are unsually slow to act, how can you see it any other way, they have a crystal ball, it's call projections and scientific evidence which they ignore, because "you have to balance the economy" then they fail at balancing the economy. 

IS LOCKING DOWN EARLIER GREATER THAN THE COST OF NOT DOING IT?

Probably, it would have meant a lot more control over the virus in march, it could have meant getting our country to a better financial position quicker, because they had actually trace a lower amount of cases. Locking down earlier in autumn could have meant more time to plan for christmas, more time to get a track and trace up and running before they relaxed measures, more time to plan for students coming home. 

But they left it all to the last minute, even though 90 percent of the people on here were wondering why they weren't doing that stuff.?

The problem is you are still asking the same question people were, when the virus wasn't completely out of control. seeing 100 deaths a day, yes if closing school for a month could stop that i think it would be better. but that's just me. 

[xxialac]

Just now, Fuzzy Afro said:

I’m pretty sure this is a thing. There are over 1000 by specimen date on certain dates in the first wave, but never over 1000 by reporting date. Mind you some of the reporting is dreadful, I saw one just a few weeks ago where someone had literally died in March before the first lockdown even started and were only getting included in the figures now. 

In finance they call it 'smoothing' the figures but it is stated as such.

You should never do it with human lives. How can you ever begin to have any trust for any government that does this?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Jesus Christ Man. 

I keep agreeing with you that the government have got things wrong. Your view is that they keep ignoring people who know better, and are slow to react etc...

You talk like they have some magic wand to suddenly make track and trace the perfect tool for the job. That wand doesn't exist. Neither does the crystal ball.

Is the benefit of locking down earlier greater than the cost of not doing it? Is the benefit of closing schools greater than not doing it? Etc... Etc... Etc... All of these are the sorts of questions that the government has to balance out nobody else has to ask that questions. The NHS can easily say we need to lock the country down now because it is not their job to worry about schools, employment etc... Etc... 

That is the big you keep missing when blaming the government (who are not blameless). You must acknowledge that the decisions they are making isn't as simple as having skinny fries or chunky chips? 

The country is effectively in lockdown anyway and that isn't exactly working either. Been in effective lockdown (T3) since October and the numbers are on the rise again - who do you blame for that one?

I think I’ve been pretty clear who I blame. The government are moving too slowly again. As has been said by myself and many others on here we need a strict national lockdown now to try to curb the stem of the virus and the new variant of it. Which will hopefully give the NHS a chance after the Christmas roses come in a few weeks.

If you go back through my posts I’ve been very consistent about how we should handle this especially with schools where I said they should be the absolute last thing to close. As kids education is vital. But we are in a global health crises so in extreme circumstances those measures will need to be taken. Otherwise cases will continue to rise and hospitals admissions will follow. We have had the 3rd day in a row for record cases, they need to do something, we can’t afford as a country not too.

It’s been 10 months, more than enough time to get an effective test and trace scheme running. It was the government that said the system was world class that was in June, it sounds like they have this magic wand not me. Maybe if we had those effective measures in place areas might not have had to have been in tier 3 in October. Now it’s too late so we have to act hard and fast. 

[xxialac]

The government has evidently taken a 'wait and see' rather than 'be decisive' approach throughout the crisis.

And every fucking time it's been the wrong call. This Christmas was the final straw for me. 

They are absolutely to blame.

Extending the crisis has also damaged the economy as well as the health of the nation.

Lose-lose.

[Punksnotdead]

7 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

I need a drink 

My first Guiness of the night has just been poured & the first of my top 10 albums of the year is on the turntable. 🙂

I'm determined to avoid any more shit news for what remains of this year.

2020 - get tae fuck!!!!!!

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

2 minutes ago, xxialac said:

The government has evidently taken a 'wait and see' rather than 'be decisive' approach throughout the crisis.

And every fucking time it's been the wrong call. This Christmas was the final straw for me. 

They are absolutely to blame.

Extending the crisis has also damaged the economy as well as the health of the nation.

Lose-lose.

The crisis doesn’t end until enough people are vaccinated, it’s just a question of how you spread the crisis out in the interim. 

[MEGABOWL]

4 hours ago, Losing my hair said:

And yet all the polling that I've seen has said that the majority of people are in favour of lockdowns; a majority supported a 2 week circuit breaker in October, a majority supported a lockdown over Christmas and in November You Gov published this

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/8vylxqh84u/England lockdown snap poll.pdf

I can't find anything published since the new variant came to light which I suspect would increase lockdown support.

I always smile when I see these polls. Unless the question being asked is ‘are *you* following the rules 100%’ and the answers are lie-detector verified they’re not painting the full picture. I hope Government bodies that use this data are allowing for that rather than drifting along in blissful ignorance of the reality.

[Guest]

 Not good signs at all. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

 Not good signs at all. 

Who is suppressing this information? It’s all very confusing. But east London sounds like a war zone and it’s probably only a matter of days until the rest of London is the same. 

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

 Not good signs at all. 

The detail is being released at 6pm by a mainstream news outlet.

If there's one thing worse than incompetence it's trying to deny the public the truth.

 

[Guest]

Just now, xxialac said:

The detail is being released at 6pm by a mainstream news outlet.

If there's one thing worse than incompetence it's trying to deny the public the truth.

 

I’ve just seen that too, that type of news needs to get out. 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

5 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

The crisis doesn’t end until enough people are vaccinated, it’s just a question of how you spread the crisis out in the interim. 

Yep and you keep your economy and therefore the country functioning while you get there. 

 

Anyway I've been told to shut up.

[zahidf]

 

[Leyrulion]

14 minutes ago, Punksnotdead said:

My first Guiness of the night has just been poured & the first of my top 10 albums of the year is on the turntable. 🙂

I'm determined to avoid any more shit news for what remains of this year.

2020 - get tae fuck!!!!!!

Bloody excellent new year's plans!

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Yep and you keep your economy and therefore the country functioning while you get there. 

 

Anyway I've been told to shut up.

I respect different views on this but for me a good economy is something to work on once only once you have low case numbers. You can no longer balance both when the case numbers are out of control.

[stuartbert two hats]

36 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Jesus Christ Man. 

I keep agreeing with you that the government have got things wrong. Your view is that they keep ignoring people who know better, and are slow to react etc...

You talk like they have some magic wand to suddenly make track and trace the perfect tool for the job. That wand doesn't exist. Neither does the crystal ball.

Is the benefit of locking down earlier greater than the cost of not doing it? Is the benefit of closing schools greater than not doing it? Etc... Etc... Etc... All of these are the sorts of questions that the government has to balance out nobody else has to ask that questions. The NHS can easily say we need to lock the country down now because it is not their job to worry about schools, employment etc... Etc... 

That is the big you keep missing when blaming the government (who are not blameless). You must acknowledge that the decisions they are making isn't as simple as having skinny fries or chunky chips? 

The country is effectively in lockdown anyway and that isn't exactly working either. Been in effective lockdown (T3) since October and the numbers are on the rise again - who do you blame for that one?

It's been a really hard year to be in government, no doubt. And some decisions even now it's hard to tell whether some were the right or wrong decision (schools and economic stimuli over the summer in particular), as they balance not only economy and health, but also mental health and the "fatigue effect" that can prevent the government from being able to govern at all. It's not simple and an uneviable task. 

Having said all that, they've done a terrible job. Time after time after time they've acted late. Acted after everyone is telling them to do something and they've dug their heels in. Yes advisors advise and ministers decide - but they've continually ignored very strong advice until many lives have been lost.  Keir Starmer has looked like a super forecaster in comparison, merely by pointing out the bloody obvious.

The Tories said they couldn't afford to extend the furlough past October, well we can afford* to keep it going to April even less. I really don't blame them much for delaying in March. It was obviously a week late, but lockdown was unprecedented, fair enough.  But to fail to understand exponential growth twice more? So, so utterly frustrating, expensive and unavoidable.

It's absolutely a difficult balance. And they have consistently, obviously-at-the-time got it wrong, repeatedly.

Shut the fucking schools for a 2-3 weeks already!

Edited December 31, 2020 by stuartbert two hats

[Crazyfool01]

Can we have a 1 hour truce over the hours of 11.30 -12:30 ? 🙂 

[Lycra]

5 hours ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Because he was spreading propaganda about a bunch of people being reinfected. There are only a handful of confirmed second covid infections worldwide. 

I think you owe health workers an apology. We have covid reinfections confirmed by pcr testing within our hospital staff. 

[xxialac]

4 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Can we have a 1 hour truce over the hours of 11.30 -12:30 ? 🙂 

Only if we can have extra abuse before 11.30 to make up for it.

[ace56blaa]

7 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Yep and you keep your economy and therefore the country functioning while you get there. 

 

Anyway I've been told to shut up.

Yeah sorry, shouldn't have said shut up, 

Just tired of hearing the same talking points that made sense at the beginning of the pandemic like the Tories not having a crystal ball. Even though then they did have the benefit of seeing the effect on Italy and other countries before it was out of control here, they clearly were not going to make perfect decisions about the virus, as back then we knew very little about it. 

The crystal ball thing just comes across to me as parroting the same rhetoric that johnson himself does when calling Keir Starmer captain hindsight. 

Yes it's easier to point out governmental mistakes after the fact, but that is no longer what is happening, press, scientists and the general public, often see something coming, like the surge in infections at Universities or the U-turn on christmas mixing way before the government acts. Sometimes weeks or months before. 

It just seems like most of your arguments haven't changed to reflect the situation we are currently in and why we're in it. Like the whole eat out to help out thing, I'd be on the same page of your if the economy had recovered and the these businesses weren't closed now, but they are. 

Again sorry for saying shut up, not a healthy way to debate, but crystal ball? like what? You honestly think the government couldn't see most of this coming and just chose to ignore or hope it wouldn't,