Are we In or Out?

[mozzy]

4 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Who the fuck downvoted this?

JamieKThomas

[RichardWaller]

9 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Who the fuck downvoted this?

Fuck knows but I've got rid of that..

[Nobody Interesting]

1 minute ago, RichardWaller said:

Fuck knows but I've got rid of that..

Thanks, I would have done but have used all of mine.

[Winslow Leach]

Perhaps Brendan Cox knew that the vultures were circling and didn't want them to set the narrative of her death and completely erase everything she stood for.

[clarkete]

36 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

I pointed out something that struck me as strange, maybe the political class ARE different in their reactions and priorities, maybe he didn't write it, someone in the party just thought "we have to put out a statement" and he went along with it, just seemed a bit too soon to me.

Firstly, perhaps a man whose wife had dedicated so much of her life to other people and to public service wanted to put out a simple statement which he hoped would pay tribute to his wife and also prevent further propagation of hate?

Secondly, I suspect you've also seen headlines that she had received hate mail in the past, perhaps he had feared that something awful would happen?

Perhaps you could consider behaving with a fraction of that degree of respect yourself?

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, Winslow Leach said:

Perhaps Brendan Cox knew that the vultures were circling and didn't want them to set the narrative of her death and completely erase everything she stood for.

Brendan is right at the heart of Labour himself rather than being outside of politics as a partner of an MP might be. That's probably had a bearing on a lot of the reaction.

[Winslow Leach]

Just now, eFestivals said:

Brendan is right at the heart of Labour himself rather than being outside of politics as a partner of an MP might be. That's probably had a bearing on a lot of the reaction.

Yeah exactly, that was kind of my point.

[Mr.Tease]

9 hours ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

While I've no doubt the guy today suffered from 'mental health problems' it's not a fucking excuse or explanation. 'Mental health problems' are something which effects a decent proportion of the population, in many different ways. I'm sure the w*nker that shot up the club in Orlando also suffered from 'mental health problems'. 

If his problems allowed him to become a murdered the questions are:

1) What caused this?

2) Why wasn't it picked up on?

'Mental health problems' is a horrible get out clause which both does nothing to solve the issue and stigmatises mental health issues in general.

I've always found the coverage of mental health issues weird in these kinds of events, in that the media seem to group together all types of mental health issues as if there some sort of single condition. If a person is suffering an episode of psychosis, then absolutely they are not to blame for their actions. Likewise if someones having a manic depressive episode, then legally they can sometimes (but not always) be deemed to lack capacity (which is why sometimes people whoa re suicidal can be sectioned)- but low to medium depression, anxiety, whatever, they don't diminish capacity- sure you're more likely to make a more destructive decision when you're feeling shit, but you can't blame the depression or anxiety.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, Mr.Tease said:

I've always found the coverage of mental health issues weird in these kinds of events, in that the media seem to group together all types of mental health issues as if there some sort of single condition. If a person is suffering an episode of psychosis, then absolutely they are not to blame for their actions. Likewise if someones having a manic depressive episode, then legally they can sometimes (but not always) be deemed to lack capacity (which is why sometimes people whoa re suicidal can be sectioned)- but low to medium depression, anxiety, whatever, they don't diminish capacity- sure you're more likely to make a more destructive decision when you're feeling shit, but you can't blame the depression or anxiety.

Yep.

Psychosis aside, we all know what's right and wrong.

This geezer has supposedly been interested in violence for 'his cause' for the best part of 2 decades.

[fur_q]

53 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

I pointed out something that struck me as strange, maybe the political class ARE different in their reactions and priorities, maybe he didn't write it, someone in the party just thought "we have to put out a statement" and he went along with it, just seemed a bit too soon to me.

Or maybe people are just a very heterogeneous group and react to grief and shock in hugely different ways that don't always seem rational to casual observers.

[SwedgeAntilles]

1 hour ago, gizmoman said:

"Less than an hour after West Yorkshire Police announced that she had succumbed to her injuries, Mr. Cox issued a statement:

"Today is the beginning of a new chapter in our lives. More difficult, more painful, less joyful, less full of love. I and Joe's friends and family are going to work every moment of our lives to love and nurture our kids and to fight against the hate that killed Jo.

"Jo believed in a better world and she fought for it every day of her life with an energy, and a zest for life that would exhaust most people.

She would have wanted two things above all else to happen now, one that our precious children are bathed in love and two, that we all unite to fight against the hatred that killed her. Hate doesn't have a creed, race or religion, it is poisonous.

"Jo would have no regrets about her life, she lived every day of it to the full.""

I find it very strange that, less than an hour after his wife has been killed he is able to release to the media an obituary stating what she would have wanted and including an assumption on what killed her and a political message. Most people would have been in a state of shock and despair, comforting their loved ones and informing family, how did he have the time to sit down and compose a press release?

[Mr.Tease]

1 hour ago, gizmoman said:

"Less than an hour after West Yorkshire Police announced that she had succumbed to her injuries, Mr. Cox issued a statement:

"Today is the beginning of a new chapter in our lives. More difficult, more painful, less joyful, less full of love. I and Joe's friends and family are going to work every moment of our lives to love and nurture our kids and to fight against the hate that killed Jo.

"Jo believed in a better world and she fought for it every day of her life with an energy, and a zest for life that would exhaust most people.

She would have wanted two things above all else to happen now, one that our precious children are bathed in love and two, that we all unite to fight against the hatred that killed her. Hate doesn't have a creed, race or religion, it is poisonous.

"Jo would have no regrets about her life, she lived every day of it to the full.""

I find it very strange that, less than an hour after his wife has been killed he is able to release to the media an obituary stating what she would have wanted and including an assumption on what killed her and a political message. Most people would have been in a state of shock and despair, comforting their loved ones and informing family, how did he have the time to sit down and compose a press release?

Brendan has always been an active campaigner- we elected him head of the LSE labour party back in the 90s. He was a nice bloke, from what I remember of him ( I always expected him to become an MP or something, so it doesn't surprise me he ended up advising Gordon Brown and working for Save the Children)- it's something he shared with his wife, and was probably a very important part of their relationship.

Everyone reacts to grief differently, and one very common way its to revert to 'work-mode' or focus on practicalities. In that moment he obviously decided to say what he felt  and what he felt his wife would have wanted to say- I don't find it strange at all.

[ohvienna]

9 hours ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

While I've no doubt the guy today suffered from 'mental health problems' it's not a fucking excuse or explanation. 'Mental health problems' are something which effects a decent proportion of the population, in many different ways. I'm sure the w*nker that shot up the club in Orlando also suffered from 'mental health problems'. 

If his problems allowed him to become a murdered the questions are:

1) What caused this?

2) Why wasn't it picked up on?

'Mental health problems' is a horrible get out clause which both does nothing to solve the issue and stigmatises mental health issues in general.

Yep. Mental health is not some ticket out of talking about about the real, root problems.

It's not a coincidence or because of MH issues this guy shot Jo Cox. It's not a coincidence the Orlando shooter chose a gay club as his target. 

[gizmoman]

8 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Brendan has always been an active campaigner- we elected him head of the LSE labour party back in the 90s. He was a nice bloke, from what I remember of him ( I always expected him to become an MP or something, so it doesn't surprise me he ended up advising Gordon Brown and working for Save the Children)- it's something he shared with his wife, and was probably a very important part of their relationship.

Everyone reacts to grief differently, and one very common way its to revert to 'work-mode' or focus on practicalities. In that moment he obviously decided to say what he felt  and what he felt his wife would have wanted to say- I don't find it strange at all.

You may well have it there, until something like this happens you can't really say how you would react so maybe I was a bit cynical, sorry if peeps thought I was being disrespectful.

[phil the shrew]

Police have now revealed the she died shortly after reaching hospital at about 2pm and the statement wasn't released until late afternoon which can lay to rest the conspiracy theories. 

Also been confirmed the counter terrorism unit are involved in the investigations 

[Winslow Leach]

Also the line everyone's quoting from that local news story where Mair says gardening has been better for him than 'psychotherapy and medication' is a misquote. The original article refers to 'physiotherapy and medication'. But i guess 'nutter with a gun' plays better for some people.

[Spindles]

I saw this on social media, thought I'd share it here.

 

[Winslow Leach]

Nazi regalia found at his home. That enough to convince the 'let's reserve judgement' crowd?

[waterfalls212434]

This just came up on my feed...apprently police and media looking into authenticity, certainly looks like the guy and it's from a bf demo very close to him  

 

[mcshed]

14 hours ago, Junglist1981 said:

It's gonna take the country years to get over this referendum. The soul of the nation is fucked right now. 

 

These highly emotive referenda seem to have a huge impact on society. Things up here in Scotland have been irreversibly changed. I fucking hate them.

[frostypaw]

I've missed you lot.

If only the discussion was like this elsewhere

[Levitz]

16 hours ago, ohvienna said:

Yep. Mental health is not some ticket out of talking about about the real, root problems.

It's not a coincidence or because of MH issues this guy shot Jo Cox. It's not a coincidence the Orlando shooter chose a gay club as his target. 

The overwhelming focus on mental health 'angle' by some sections of the media/politics to deflect attention from his political leanings is reprehensible. It's hard enough trying to remove the stigma of mental disorder without it being the go to reason why people do terrible things. The S*n linking this on their front page with depression. People with depression, and other mental health issues, are far more likely to hurt themselves than anyone else. But no lets align mental health issues with murder to deflect attention from their own extremist rhetoric so they can wash their hands. 

Edited June 18, 2016 by Levitz

[Keithy]

23 hours ago, gizmoman said:

"Less than an hour after West Yorkshire Police announced that she had succumbed to her injuries, Mr. Cox issued a statement:

"Today is the beginning of a new chapter in our lives. More difficult, more painful, less joyful, less full of love. I and Joe's friends and family are going to work every moment of our lives to love and nurture our kids and to fight against the hate that killed Jo.

"Jo believed in a better world and she fought for it every day of her life with an energy, and a zest for life that would exhaust most people.

She would have wanted two things above all else to happen now, one that our precious children are bathed in love and two, that we all unite to fight against the hatred that killed her. Hate doesn't have a creed, race or religion, it is poisonous.

"Jo would have no regrets about her life, she lived every day of it to the full.""

I find it very strange that, less than an hour after his wife has been killed he is able to release to the media an obituary stating what she would have wanted and including an assumption on what killed her and a political message. Most people would have been in a state of shock and despair, comforting their loved ones and informing family, how did he have the time to sit down and compose a press release?

When my friend lost his wife and newborn baby, within an hour he posted a very well written, thoughtful and reflective message on Facebook to let their large circle of friends know. It was the shock of it that effectively gave him the detachment to write it. The despair came days and weeks later when he realised what he'd lost.

So you have no idea what you're talking about.

[brettredmayne]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/you-wont-get-back-your-country-if-you-vote-for-brexit-youll-give-it-to-the-most-right-wing-uk-a7079581.html

 

Good article this 

[gizmoman]

58 minutes ago, Keithy said:

When my friend lost his wife and newborn baby, within an hour he posted a very well written, thoughtful and reflective message on Facebook to let their large circle of friends know. It was the shock of it that effectively gave him the detachment to write it. The despair came days and weeks later when he realised what he'd lost.

So you have no idea what you're talking about.

That confirms the point Mr tease made above, I, fortunately have never had to deal with anything so traumatic, my assumption about the time was wrong too as it turns out, he had longer to write his statement than it first appeared, sorry for your mate, that was terrible.