Are we In or Out?

[Starchild771]

..and finally we have the white supremacy connection - please ask yourselves whether this is not very, very convenient?

Utterly depressing. Do not support terrorism people and do not support propaganda. Have your democratic say.

[fur_q]

On 30 May 2016 at 11:25 AM, Alanhathaway said:

As chuck d said, Don't believe the hype! Out, out & out.

This referendum has been an absolute disgrace with poor representation on both sides who are only interested in what's in it for them- but to say that a vote for out will bring on the economic collapse of this country, third world war etc is complete sh*te. If this was the case why did neither Cameron or Osborne happen to mention all of this a year ago....? Sadly the spotlight for Brexit is led by Johnson & Farage so a vote for out is seen as a vote for them. 

Fundamentally, people are frightened of change. For me, it comes down to whether you want you want an unelected government where you have only around 10% representation and where billions are wasted on a yearly basis or whether you'd prefer it to be run by an elected government in this country for better or worse. Asl yourself why would a Spanish/French/German MEP be interested in the needs of you? Forget the rest of the white noise as know one really knows for sure.

And lastly, for anyone who doesn't believe the EU wastes considerable amounts of money please read this, it is criminal that it is allowed to occur but the French has the power to veto and amplifies exactly why the EU does not work:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10565686/The-farce-of-the-EU-travelling-circus.html

  

It's interesting the difference in the was the two are being reported, the ex-wife of the Orlando killer has stated that she is sure he suffered from bi-polar disorder. We must remember that mental health dissorders have a prevelence in the region of 25% (I.e. One in four of us will have an episode of such a disorder in our lifetime) and the vast majority are a danger to no one but themselves. We don't know all the facts in this case yet but I feel it odd that many in the media are quick to point to a history of beating a 'loner' with past MH problems in a way they are not when other non-white people carry out such acts. 

[Winslow Leach]

2 minutes ago, Starchild771 said:

..and finally we have the white supremacy connection - please ask yourselves whether this is not very, very convenient?

Utterly depressing. Do not support terrorism people and do not support propaganda. Have your democratic say.

What are you even trying to imply here? 

[SwedgeAntilles]

13 minutes ago, Starchild771 said:

..and finally we have the white supremacy connection - please ask yourselves whether this is not very, very convenient?

Utterly depressing. Do not support terrorism people and do not support propaganda. Have your democratic say.

Wow, for real?

[Starchild771]

7 minutes ago, Winslow Leach said:

What are you even trying to imply here? 

I am anti-propaganda! Have a look at the news headlines - they speak for themselves.

The EU referendum has been a farce.

The debate should have been structured around intelligent and informative debate and one lone crazy man should not be able to influence peoples vote on such an important issue. We should not be fighting but making informed decisions together.

[SwedgeAntilles]

6 minutes ago, Starchild771 said:

I am anti-propaganda! Have a look at the news headlines - they speak for themselves.

Yeah. I've read them. They're pretty much all about a dead MP who was shot and stabbed to death, on the street in the middle of the day, in the UK. There's no propaganda there, that's what happened.

[Winslow Leach]

Just now, Starchild771 said:

I am anti-propaganda! Have a look at the news headlines - they speak for themselves.

The EU referendum has been a farce.

The debate should have been structured around intelligent and informative debate and one lone crazy man should not be able to influence peoples vote on such an important issue. We should not be fighting but making informed decisions together.

A man with links to far right organisations has murdered an elected lawmaker while allegedly shouting 'Britain first'. This is what the current toxic climate has led to, and if you believe that's propaganda then I'm afraid to tell you that you're feeding that climate. 

[fur_q]

3 minutes ago, Winslow Leach said:

A man with links to far right organisations has murdered an elected lawmaker while allegedly shouting 'Britain first'. This is what the current toxic climate has led to, and if you believe that's propaganda then I'm afraid to tell you that you're feeding that climate. 

Exactly if you're going to keep blowing a dog whistle sooner or a later a dog is going bite someone. 

[Starchild771]

1 minute ago, Winslow Leach said:

A man with links to far right organisations has murdered an elected lawmaker while allegedly shouting 'Britain first'. This is what the current toxic climate has led to, and if you believe that's propaganda then I'm afraid to tell you that you're feeding that climate. 

He didn't shout "Britain first" according to all the witnesses though - that's what I'm talking about.

I'm sorry, I know my opinion is controversial but I do like to question the powers that be sometimes and I think that's a good thing. 

[JamieKThomas]

The scum bags at the Daily Star have seriously out done them selves with tomorrow's front page reading "MP DEAD AFTER ATTACK BY BREXIT GUNMAN" 

 

Political point scoring off the back of a murder,  makes me sick.  

[DeanoL]

Just now, Starchild771 said:

He didn't shout "Britain first" according to all the witnesses though - that's what I'm talking about.

I'm sorry, I know my opinion is controversial but I do like to question the powers that be sometimes and I think that's a good thing. 

He still killed a leading Remain campaigner a week before the referendum she was campaigning for. Mentally ill or not, linked with Britian First or any other organisation or not, the chances of it being a pure conincidence, wrong-place, wrong-time sort of thing is massively remote. Random street shootings are still blissfully rare in the UK.

There's almost certainly a political motivation to this, regardless of what was or wasn't shouted.

[Starchild771]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

He still killed a leading Remain campaigner a week before the referendum she was campaigning for. Mentally ill or not, linked with Britian First or any other organisation or not, the chances of it being a pure conincidence, wrong-place, wrong-time sort of thing is massively remote. Random street shootings are still blissfully rare in the UK.

There's almost certainly a political motivation to this, regardless of what was or wasn't shouted.

Yep, I agree but one man/terrorist should not be able to influence peoples democratic vote.

[Winslow Leach]

6 minutes ago, Starchild771 said:

He didn't shout "Britain first" according to all the witnesses though - that's what I'm talking about.

I'm sorry, I know my opinion is controversial but I do like to question the powers that be sometimes and I think that's a good thing. 

More witnesses claim he did than specifically deny that he did. 

Edited June 16, 2016 by Winslow Leach

[SwedgeAntilles]

*Ahem*

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/06/16/alleged-killer-british-mp-was-longtime-supporter-neo-nazi-national-alliance

[Winslow Leach]

2 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

*Ahem*

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/06/16/alleged-killer-british-mp-was-longtime-supporter-neo-nazi-national-alliance

No don't you understand, it's a false flag to discredit the Leave campaign. 

[Starchild771]

2 minutes ago, Winslow Leach said:

More witnesses claim he did than specifically deny that he did. 

I don't know - it's all so quick and premature (especially those headlines) and the messages are so powerful.

[SwedgeAntilles]

6 minutes ago, Winslow Leach said:

No don't you understand, it's a false flag to discredit the Leave campaign. 

Out of upvotes, but you get the idea.

It's looking like this bastard isn't just a Britain First sympathiser, but a 100% brutal right wing arsehole who's been into it for decades. Looks like a fucking McVeigh.

[SwedgeAntilles]

7 minutes ago, Starchild771 said:

I don't know - it's all so quick and premature (especially those headlines) and the messages are so powerful.

It's 24 hour news, everything is quick and premature. You're looking for conspiracies that aren't there and I'm afraid it looks ghoulish. 

[Starchild771]

Just now, SwedgeAntilles said:

Out of upvotes, but you get the idea.

It's looking like this bastard isn't just a Britain First sympathiser, but a 100% brutal right wing arsehole who's been into it for decades. Looks like a fucking McVeigh.

If you read that article you posted you will note that the killer had “history of mental illness,”.Without knowing anything about the man or his mental illness I could not possibly judge the situation with any conviction.

[Winslow Leach]

2 minutes ago, Starchild771 said:

If you read that article you posted you will note that the killer had “history of mental illness,”.Without knowing anything about the man or his mental illness I could not possibly judge the situation with any conviction.

Funnily enough none of my mentally ill friends have ever gunned down a politician in the street. 

[SwedgeAntilles]

7 minutes ago, Starchild771 said:

If you read that article you posted you will note that the killer had “history of mental illness,”.Without knowing anything about the man or his mental illness I could not possibly judge the situation with any conviction.

Well I can judge because I know;

1) He has murdered a MP by shooting her three times, once 'around the face' and stabbed her and people who tried to intervene,

2) He, as reported by more than one eye-witness, referred to 'Britain First'

3) He is a historical member of EXTREME far right organisations in the US and SA, for decades apparently, as per the article I posted above.

4) If this man was, for example manic depressive, it would not explain this extreme behaviour and therefore an explanation of 'mental health problems' is absolutely useless.

5) Newspapers using 'mental health problems' is extremely harmful to the high proportion of people in the UK who suffer for mental health problems and have to deal with the stigma.

[Starchild771]

11 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

It's 24 hour news, everything is quick and premature. You're looking for conspiracies that aren't there and I'm afraid it looks ghoulish. 

I have the utmost respect for the woman's family and the suffering they will be going through, however, I will continue to question the world that's presented to me via the media or politicians. It's my nature -  I don't mean to offend anyone.

[SwedgeAntilles]

6 minutes ago, Starchild771 said:

I have the utmost respect for the woman's family and the suffering they will be going through, however, I will continue to question the world that's presented to me via the media or politicians. It's my nature -  I don't mean to offend anyone.

I do the same. I read RT and Al Jazeera for balance. I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm aware of mainstream media bias, however there's a difference between being cynical and looking for things that aren't there.

[Starchild771]

11 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

I do the same. I read RT and Al Jazeera for balance. I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm aware of mainstream media bias, however there's a difference between being cynical and looking for things that aren't there.

I hope you are right and I'm just being too cynical (which is entirely possible).

[dentalplan]

1 hour ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

While I've no doubt the guy today suffered from 'mental health problems' it's not a fucking excuse or explanation. 'Mental health problems' are something which effects a decent proportion of the population, in many different ways. I'm sure the w*nker that shot up the club in Orlando also suffered from 'mental health problems'. 

If his problems allowed him to become a murdered the questions are:

1) What caused this?

2) Why wasn't it picked up on?

'Mental health problems' is a horrible get out clause which both does nothing to solve the issue and stigmatises mental health issues in general.

Yeah absolutely. When the articles are titled "Killer had history of mental health problems" or "quiet killer lived alone" or whatever and you just wonder who benefits from finding that out? The press fall over themselves to cobble together an article on Facebook photos and the quotes of neighbours because apparently the first thoughts of some people after something like this happens is "who was the killer?" and "what's 'wrong' with them?", so their face is plastered over the news, their name is trending and their message is seen by the world. Can't stand it.