Are we In or Out?

[DeanoL]

57 minutes ago, Starchild771 said:

Yep, I agree but one man/terrorist should not be able to influence peoples democratic vote.

Unless that one person is Farage? Or Boris Johnson? Or David Cameron? Or Rupert Murdoch? I dare say The Sun's coming out it massive force for Leave will actually have more influence on the vote than this.

[the wonderwhy]

Yeah I hate that too. Unfortunately it's what sells, though. 

Newspapers would do well not to even mention the murderer on their front pages because 1) a lot of the time that attention is exactly what they're after 2) at this stage absolutely none of them actually know many of the facts (including what he said at the time, why he did it etc.) and 3) its actually sorta disrespectful to the deceased. 

I made the exact same points in an essay when Alison Parker and Adam Ward were killed on TV last year. Front pages (in the US) were much the same as what we're seeing tomorrow morning. Takes away from the mourning, above all else. It struck me even more because journalists were doing it to 'one of their own'. 

Its no coincidence that the papers with decent front pages tomorrow (the i and the Indy, if you'll count that) have (or had...) two of the lowest circulation numbers, unfortunately.

[Starchild771]

32 minutes ago, MattDavies__ said:

Yeah I hate that too. Unfortunately it's what sells, though. 

Newspapers would do well not to even mention the murderer on their front pages because 1) a lot of the time that attention is exactly what they're after 2) at this stage absolutely none of them actually know many of the facts (including what he said at the time, why he did it etc.) and 3) its actually sorta disrespectful to the deceased. 

I made the exact same points in an essay when Alison Parker and Adam Ward were killed on TV last year. Front pages (in the US) were much the same as what we're seeing tomorrow morning. Takes away from the mourning, above all else. It struck me even more because journalists were doing it to 'one of their own'. 

Its no coincidence that the papers with decent front pages tomorrow (the i and the Indy, if you'll count that) have (or had...) two of the lowest circulation numbers, unfortunately.

Eloquently put. It's disheartening  to see the over-the-top and opportunistic headlines but I guess thats to be expected.

[eFestivals]

7 hours ago, Starchild771 said:

..and finally we have the white supremacy connection - please ask yourselves whether this is not very, very convenient?

Utterly depressing. Do not support terrorism people and do not support propaganda. Have your democratic say.

I've just visited the Daily Mail, to see what the 'nice' people are saying.

People expressing condolences (and saying nothing more) are being heavily down-voted.

And just as you're doing here, there's plenty putting on their tin-foil hats and denying that any witnesses heard him say anything about 'Britain first'.

Welcome to the post-human post-truth world of the brexiters.

[eFestivals]

6 hours ago, Starchild771 said:

He didn't shout "Britain first" according to all the witnesses though - that's what I'm talking about.

I'm sorry, I know my opinion is controversial but I do like to question the powers that be sometimes and I think that's a good thing. 

If you want to talk about the truth, firstly you need the truth on your side.

Instead of blatant lies.

[Junglist1981]

It's gonna take the country years to get over this referendum. The soul of the nation is fucked right now. 

 

[Waapster]

7 hours ago, Starchild771 said:

He didn't shout "Britain first" according to all the witnesses though - that's what I'm talking about.

I'm sorry, I know my opinion is controversial but I do like to question the powers that be sometimes and I think that's a good thing. 

Well BBC news interviewed an eye witness on camera and I saw him say the attacker either shouted "Britain first" or "put Britain first". So you don't have a controversial 'opinion' you are either ignorant of the facts or denying them. I do think, in the hours after the murder of a good woman, you might show a little more dignity.

[gizmoman]

"Less than an hour after West Yorkshire Police announced that she had succumbed to her injuries, Mr. Cox issued a statement:

"Today is the beginning of a new chapter in our lives. More difficult, more painful, less joyful, less full of love. I and Joe's friends and family are going to work every moment of our lives to love and nurture our kids and to fight against the hate that killed Jo.

"Jo believed in a better world and she fought for it every day of her life with an energy, and a zest for life that would exhaust most people.

She would have wanted two things above all else to happen now, one that our precious children are bathed in love and two, that we all unite to fight against the hatred that killed her. Hate doesn't have a creed, race or religion, it is poisonous.

"Jo would have no regrets about her life, she lived every day of it to the full.""

I find it very strange that, less than an hour after his wife has been killed he is able to release to the media an obituary stating what she would have wanted and including an assumption on what killed her and a political message. Most people would have been in a state of shock and despair, comforting their loved ones and informing family, how did he have the time to sit down and compose a press release?

[Spindles]

Wish I had about a dozen more upvotes to give to the good people of this community who have spoken out against this.  Horrified to see someone trying to deflect criticism and actually denying the eye witness accounts.  I mean, seriously?  I am all for trying to take a balanced and detached view of media reporting, but to instantly jump to the conclusions suggested against all evidence is reprehensible.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Spindles

[Waapster]

4 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

 

I find it very strange that, less than an hour after his wife has been killed he is able to release to the media an obituary stating what she would have wanted and including an assumption on what killed her and a political message. Most people would have been in a state of shock and despair, comforting their loved ones and informing family, how did he have the time to sit down and compose a press release?

Most people ain't all people... He was clearly involved in her political activity, for example taking a second boat down the Thames so maybe getting a message out to the people he knew would be shocked by her death was actually important to him? I don't think that is either particularly strange or inappropriate.

I suspect the media machinery of the Labour Party lent a helping hand.

[mozzy]

3 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

"Less than an hour after West Yorkshire Police announced that she had succumbed to her injuries, Mr. Cox issued a statement:

"Today is the beginning of a new chapter in our lives. More difficult, more painful, less joyful, less full of love. I and Joe's friends and family are going to work every moment of our lives to love and nurture our kids and to fight against the hate that killed Jo.

"Jo believed in a better world and she fought for it every day of her life with an energy, and a zest for life that would exhaust most people.

She would have wanted two things above all else to happen now, one that our precious children are bathed in love and two, that we all unite to fight against the hatred that killed her. Hate doesn't have a creed, race or religion, it is poisonous.

"Jo would have no regrets about her life, she lived every day of it to the full.""

I find it very strange that, less than an hour after his wife has been killed he is able to release to the media an obituary stating what she would have wanted and including an assumption on what killed her and a political message. Most people would have been in a state of shock and despair, comforting their loved ones and informing family, how did he have the time to sit down and compose a press release?

The only downside to Glastonbury coming round each year is that the resident Tory (or in your case Libertarian) w*nkers come out of the woodwork and try to clog up the forums with their brain-dead wittering. Couldn't give a flying fuck normally what (or even if) you think but just for once fuck off back into your box eh?

[Junglist1981]

2 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

 

I find it very strange that, less than an hour after his wife has been killed he is able to release to the media an obituary stating what she would have wanted and including an assumption on what killed her and a political message. Most people would have been in a state of shock and despair, comforting their loved ones and informing family, how did he have the time to sit down and compose a press release?

I don't even know where to start with this.

I'm sure nothing I say will shake you out of this conspiracy bullshit, but until your wife is brutally murdered in the street how on earth can you comment on the mindstate of this man?

Besides which, consider that you're implicating the husband in a conspiracy to have his wife murdered in an attempt to swing the referendum.

You seriously believe this?

 

[Waapster]

1 minute ago, Junglist1981 said:

 

Besides which, consider that you're implicating the husband in a conspiracy to have his wife murdered in an attempt to swing the referendum.

 

 

I'm not sure he said that...

[Spindles]

We're all angry this morning, it is only right.  But I would caution about getting into emotive arguments on the internet, it is not good for the mental health.  I'm going to avoid all news comment sections because I don't think I dare look into the minds of the apologists, supporters and deniers.

[gizmoman]

10 minutes ago, mozzy said:

The only downside to Glastonbury coming round each year is that the resident Tory (or in your case Libertarian) w*nkers come out of the woodwork and try to clog up the forums with their brain-dead wittering. Couldn't give a flying fuck normally what (or even if) you think but just for once fuck off back into your box eh?

I'm on here all year round i'm afraid, brain dead wittering isn't just for Glastonbury!, you don't care what I think but still give an emotive reply, more strange behaviour!

[mozzy]

I thought the last sentence of my previous post was clear enough for even the hardest of thinking to understand. Clearly I was mistaken.

[RichardWaller]

11 hours ago, sime said:

I'll be honest, as much as I am looking forward to Glastonbury next week. Right now, after today events and those at the weekend, I'm really not feeling it at all.

Totally understandable, starting to feel that way myself. Sometimes I wonder what it must be like to be blissfully unaware and unaffected by these things and all too often I find myself despairing at the state of humanity. But there are positives, even now. People still believe in love and peace. Some of the demonstrations for Orlando since, and the tributes to Jo Cox are heart warming.

I have made the mistake of reading bits of threads on Britain First, Digital Spy etc... People are coming to some frankly bizarre conclusions. Whether Tommy Mair shouted "Britain First", "Put Britain First" or anything else, it shouldn't detract from what he's done. Obviously, Britain First are keen to distance themselves from it. People are ranting and raving about people politicising this event. How the fuck is it not political, she was murdered just outside the constituency surgery she'd just held, she was pro-EU and a campaigner for refugees. Her murderer on the other hand, whatever pro-British thing he shouted, coupled with his involvement in white supremacist organisations... It takes a bit too much benefit of the doubt to be able to say it wasn't a political. Course too, Tommy Mair is a crazed loner, pretty sure if it'd have been a Muslim do this they'd be a terrorist. People are actually saying this is False Flag, it's a conspiracy to promote the Remain campaign.... Fuck me.

Can't imagine what her family are going through right now, and the dignity in which Brendan Cox has addressed the media is amazing. I couldn't do that. I'm not even gonna address that post expressing cynicism over him.

[gizmoman]

12 minutes ago, Junglist1981 said:

I don't even know where to start with this.

I'm sure nothing I say will shake you out of this conspiracy bullshit, but until your wife is brutally murdered in the street how on earth can you comment on the mindstate of this man?

Besides which, consider that you're implicating the husband in a conspiracy to have his wife murdered in an attempt to swing the referendum.

You seriously believe this?

 

I pointed out something that struck me as strange, maybe the political class ARE different in their reactions and priorities, maybe he didn't write it, someone in the party just thought "we have to put out a statement" and he went along with it, just seemed a bit too soon to me.

[Junglist1981]

16 minutes ago, Spindles said:

We're all angry this morning, it is only right.  But I would caution about getting into emotive arguments on the internet, it is not good for the mental health.  I'm going to avoid all news comment sections because I don't think I dare look into the minds of the apologists, supporters and deniers.

Very good advice! I'm gonna focus my energies on something positive  

 

[Rumblestripe]

All I want to say is that the statement from Brendan Cox is utterly astonishing in its humanity and I feel humbled by it. It is an extraordinary statement by any measure in teh circumstances. How anyone can react in any other way to this message is beyond me.

I wish him and his family and the friends of Jo, love and peace.

[Nobody Interesting]

13 hours ago, OneLittleFish said:

Disgusted. Caveman politics attacks modern, progressive politics. Not just an elected representative but someone also an empathetic figure. A mother, a wife, couldn't be more saddened.

Who the fuck downvoted this?

[eFestivals]

16 minutes ago, RichardWaller said:

Obviously, Britain First are keen to distance themselves from it.

they've said you can't demonize a whole group on the basis of the actions of one person.

The irony!

 

[waterfalls212434]

No right wing connection?...really?

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/06/16/alleged-killer-british-mp-was-longtime-supporter-neo-nazi-national-alliance

[RichardWaller]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

they've said you can't demonize a whole group on the basis of the actions of one person.

The irony!

 

Which is the first sensible thing they've said. Which also happens to be the equivalent of taking the floor from under themselves. Fuck me...

[waterfalls212434]

https://blackrevs.wordpress.com/2016/06/17/tommy-mair-links-to-west-yorkshire-nail-bomber-terence-gavan-and-neo-nazi-bomb-making-books/

 

Britain first or not this guy was clearly.a right wing extremist with a political motive....or is r just a coincidence? Denial is just stupid