When will this shit end?

[steviewevie]

43 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

There is every chance all of this will take us back to the actual worst times...war

social distanced war.

[Matt42]

53 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

The actions of the tories today are getting compared to the rise of the Nazi party. The US is trying to go back to pre civil rights movement. Why is the world trying to go back in time to the worst points of humanity. 

Because we have given people who wanted this all along some of the largest platforms in the world.

As great at the Internet has been for engaging people with political injustice together, it also caused people with very regressive views to meet, influence and rally together. I actually think in ways social media has pushed race relations back because it’s provided a platform for racists to find support for their views.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Matt42

[Guest]

1 hour ago, efcfanwirral said:

Good to know. but will that not just reduce debating times because of time needed for the queue, reduce opposition and stop those hugely at risk on the opposition side from voting anyway? 

Pretty much, ironically Mogg said that remote voting was taking time away from government scrutiny because they limited the debate times I think. It’s clearly being done with ulterior motives in mind. 

[efcfanwirral]

16 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Because we have given people who wanted this all along some of the largest platforms in the world.

As great at the Internet has been for engaging people with political injustice together, it also caused people with very regressive views to meet, influence and rally together. I actually think in ways social media has pushed race relations back because it’s provided a platform for racists to find support for their views.

And they'll win, because the rest of us will not do what it takes to win. I'm at the front of the pacifist queue but I'm well aware we stand no chance 

 

[Matt42]

Also another thing is I feel like Twitter / Instagram as social media platforms are so overwhelmingly left that it has lead a lot of people in lefter leaning areas to have a completely warped sense of how most people in the US / U.K. live their lives.

An awful lot of people have not changed their views in over 50 years. There are so many people out there who don’t use social media at all, and if they did I reckon their views would horrify most of the liberal generation. I genuinely think most white supremacist narrative / systematic racism has been existing like this unchanged for decades - the problem is a lot of people have virtually no exposure to it and don’t know it when they see it.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Matt42

[shoptildrop]

11 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Pretty much, ironically Mogg said that remote voting was taking time away from government scrutiny because they limited the debate times I think. It’s clearly being done with ulterior motives in mind. 

oh for sure - reduces scrutiny, opposition numbers, debate times whilst playing Russian roulette with people's lives ....... this virus must be a wet dream for the Tories as they can basically push through any bill, award any contract without scrutiny/opposition under the Covid-19 act - it's scary stuff and democracy has completed gone with this Government   

and then we have the Brexit sh*tshow of a No Deal version to look forward to as well errrggghhh

[shoptildrop]

7 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Also another thing is I feel like Twitter / Instagram as social media platforms are so overwhelmingly left that it has lead a lot of people in lefter leaning areas to have a completely warped sense of how most people in the US / U.K. live their lives.

An awful lot of people have not changed their views in over 50 years. There are so many people out there who don’t use social media at all, and if they did I reckon their views would horrify most of the liberal generation. I genuinely think most white supremacist narrative / systematic racism has been existing like this unchanged for decades - the problem is a lot of people have virtually no exposure to it and don’t know it when they see it.

That's a really good point, I'm actually astounded at my FB feed as I have a lot of folk that I used to go to school with who all still live in the North East - there are some proper xenophobic and nationalist views coming out, even had one say Boris is the strongest leader he has seen in his lifetime - I had no words on that tbh, but you are right there are some proper old school views on the world out there

[DareToDibble]

18 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Also another thing is I feel like Twitter / Instagram as social media platforms are so overwhelmingly left that it has lead a lot of people in lefter leaning areas to have a completely warped sense of how most people in the US / U.K. live their lives.

An awful lot of people have not changed their views in over 50 years. There are so many people out there who don’t use social media at all, and if they did I reckon their views would horrify most of the liberal generation. I genuinely think most white supremacist narrative / systematic racism has been existing like this unchanged for decades - the problem is a lot of people have virtually no exposure to it and don’t know it when they see it.

This is bang on for me. My fiancé’s aunt commented the other day on how I’ve “made her (my fiancé) more liberal”. She was only joking but you could tell it had obviously entered her head.

What blows my mind about it is that it was said as if it was a negative thing. She is an absolutely lovey woman, we get on really well, but when it comes to politics the way she thinks and votes is completely mad in comparison to her as a person. I don’t know if it’s a generational thing but her political/religious views on things genuinely stagger me and sound like a different person speaking.

[mattiloy]

6 hours ago, Cream Soda said:

Do you have any opinion on what might happen to the housing market?  I am house hunting at the moment and I can't see prices going down where I live as whenever anything decent comes up it is pounced on and sells within days or sometimes hours of coming on.  I think enough competition is there to prevent any real dip in prices, at least where I live. 

Yeah just to reiterate what others have posted, house prices are a function of supply and demand. Confidence will be a little lower right now which means less people are buying, but it also means less are probably also selling so there is not this dramatic drop in prices at the moment, but more a slowdown in the growth of prices. It is more a watch and wait situation.

I expect that average house prices will fall a bit in the next 18 months but it will probably not be as big a drop as post 2008. That recession was accompanied by a big credit crunch. Banks were poorly capitalised and stopped lending, individuals and property businesses couldn’t access credit anymore and there was a bit of a glut of properties on the market, so a big increase in supply not matched by an equivalent increase in demand. Properties at the lower end of the market were particularly affected - small 2 bed houses in poorer postcodes in cities and student flats - many property investors were heavily geared and then banks called in the debt and they couldn’t pay. Whole portfolios of them ended up repossessed and at auctions, selling for as little as half, or less, of the pre crash market price. Since then various regulations have been put in place so banks are better capitalised now so there won’t be the same squeeze on the availability of credit. So I expect that any price drop will come from a reduction in demand from a drop in actual incomes and wealth rather than some big increase in supply like last time, although there could be a fair increase in supply if foreign property investors pull out after brexit but I guess much of that effect will be concentrated in for example the market for central big city flats.

Ultimately as you rightly suggest, the average house price is fairly meaningless to your own situation when you’re a private person looking to buy a home. It does not reflect anything of the variance in that change in prices across the different types of property, different geography, the changing fortunes of specific neighbourhoods. So I think local knowledge etc is more important and thus I’m afraid sadly I can’t offer any advice on possible arbitrage opportunities :). My only advice would be to aim buy something that you would be happy living in for as long as you plan to, and that you know probably at least won’t lose any value in that time frame. Then, providing the value increases by at least inflation, then at least you can count the capital you pay off during that time as gain. So if that kind of property comes up, go for it, don’t worry if prices drop a little in the six months after if you’re planning to live there for three years for example.

And good luck!

I’d also defer to the good advice from other posters - @Deaf Nobby Burton’s in particular

[efcfanwirral]

 

12 minutes ago, DareToDibble said:

This is bang on for me. My fiancé’s aunt commented the other day on how I’ve “made her (my fiancé) more liberal”. She was only joking but you could tell it had obviously entered her head.

What blows my mind about it is that it was said as if it was a negative thing. She is an absolutely lovey woman, we get on really well, but when it comes to politics the way she thinks and votes is completely mad in comparison to her as a person. I don’t know if it’s a generational thing but her political/religious views on things genuinely stagger me and sound like a different person speaking.

My dad is similar - it's from the generation before them- they hate Germans (though hide it in everyday conversation mainly) so you can only imagine what they feel about minorities and lefties.

The fact this country "won" the war means they feel justified in this...still

Edited June 2, 2020 by efcfanwirral

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, DareToDibble said:

This is bang on for me. My fiancé’s aunt commented the other day on how I’ve “made her (my fiancé) more liberal”. She was only joking but you could tell it had obviously entered her head.

What blows my mind about it is that it was said as if it was a negative thing. She is an absolutely lovey woman, we get on really well, but when it comes to politics the way she thinks and votes is completely mad in comparison to her as a person. I don’t know if it’s a generational thing but her political/religious views on things genuinely stagger me and sound like a different person speaking.

It’s entrenched, just look at it now no matter what happened in the build up to the election the public just ignored it. They are so entrenched to accept the Tories. It’s partly because the right are so brutal and happy to play the game whereas the left try to let the morality of their view be enough. Generally this country only seems to be worried about money in the pocket first and foremost; anything else is only an issue when it’s forced to become one. It’s hard to let to message if social equality shine through against the other message of ‘that foreign person is the reason you are poor’. Labour/the left have to be savvy, play the game and wait for the fuck ups.
 

It will take something seismic to dislodge the Tories from power, as they have seemingly warped the public into believing that every issue they have caused is actually due to someone else. It’s not a coincidence that they are the most elected party in our country’s history, they will do whatever it takes to get power and will cling on to it at any cost.  

[DareToDibble]

5 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

My dad is similar - it's from the generation before them- they hate Germans (though hide it in everyday conversation mainly) so you can only imagine what they feel about minorities and lefties.

The fact this country "won" the war means they feel justified in this...still

Ah, the war. The amount of people I’ve heard say “We survived the war, we can survive Brexit!”

Completely oblivious to the fact they were justifying what they voted for by comparing it to an event that resulted in millions of deaths. What a barometer.

[DareToDibble]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

It will take something seismic to dislodge the Tories from power, as they have seemingly warped the public into believing that every issue they have caused is actually due to someone else. It’s not a coincidence that they are the most elected party in our country’s history, they will do whatever it takes to get power and will cling on to it at any cost.  

I’m sure I saw an image after the election that Labour had a huge majority in the 18-30 and 31-45 category. It was mainly the 60+ who were giving the Tories their votes. 
 

There is surely a direct correlation there to the age of people who are reading the papers... 
Couple that with the fact that as a rule they tend to be a lot more xenophobic than the younger generations it nails on their vote going to the Tories.

[Cream Soda]

27 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

My only advice would be to aim buy something that you would be happy living in for as long as you plan to, and that you know probably at least won’t lose any value in that time frame. Then, providing the value increases by at least inflation, then at least you can count the capital you pay off during that time as gain. So if that kind of property comes up, go for it, don’t worry if prices drop a little in the six months after if you’re planning to live there for three years for example.

Yes I think regardless of the market a house is ultimately worth whatever you (And others) are willing to pay for it, just a matter of the right one coming along now.  Thanks for the info 🙂

[Paul ™]

4 hours ago, northernringo said:

I'm not sure you've read it right. The politicians who get symptoms will have to self-isolate but all other politicians won't as they are social distancing.

Yeah of course they are

 

 

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, DareToDibble said:

I’m sure I saw an image after the election that Labour had a huge majority in the 18-30 and 31-45 category. It was mainly the 60+ who were giving the Tories their votes. 
 

There is surely a direct correlation there to the age of people who are reading the papers... 
Couple that with the fact that as a rule they tend to be a lot more xenophobic than the younger generations it nails on their vote going to the Tories.

My Dad once told me (he’s a Lib Dem voter and member) that as you get older you veer more towards the Tories. In theory you’ll own property on a better paid job and their policies will align with that. So maybe there’s something in that.

 

I sometimes feel like it’s an abusive relationship they’ll keep on treating us like crap yet we’ll keep on voting them in h ally to believe the lies (I don’t mean for this to be insensitive!) 

[efcfanwirral]

 

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

My Dad once told me (he’s a Lib Dem voter and member) that as you get older you veer more towards the Tories. In theory you’ll own property on a better paid job and their policies will align with that. So maybe there’s something in that.

 

I sometimes feel like it’s an abusive relationship they’ll keep on treating us like crap yet we’ll keep on voting them in h ally to believe the lies (I don’t mean for this to be insensitive!) 

That actually makes sense - though with the newspapers changing I feel the Cummings/Vote Leave social media manipulation is the next step. There is no way they'll be out of power any time soon

[Fuzzy Afro]

10 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

My Dad once told me (he’s a Lib Dem voter and member) that as you get older you veer more towards the Tories. In theory you’ll own property on a better paid job and their policies will align with that. So maybe there’s something in that.

 

I sometimes feel like it’s an abusive relationship they’ll keep on treating us like crap yet we’ll keep on voting them in h ally to believe the lies (I don’t mean for this to be insensitive!) 

What’s that old story about a 25 year old man who doesn’t vote Labour has no heart, a 55 year old man who doesn’t vote Tory has no head. 

[stuie]

2 hours ago, Wellyboot said:

 

There's just no sense in it is there!

(upvote just for using 'loiter' it doesn't get said enough  )

 

It’s the most old fashioned, ridiculous, ceremonial bullshit. It’s actually embarrassing. It makes us look so old fashioned and stuck in the past compared to other governments. Not to mention when it’s a full house and they all start booing and jeering at each other! 

[DareToDibble]

17 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

My Dad once told me (he’s a Lib Dem voter and member) that as you get older you veer more towards the Tories. In theory you’ll own property on a better paid job and their policies will align with that. So maybe there’s something in that.

I have discussed with my mate the worry that people turn Tory when they reach a certain age. I’d like to think better of people than that. If you’re in a nice house, with a well paid job, you should be happy to vote in a way that will allow it to be easier for future generations to do the same. Unfortunately it seems not everyone is that way inclined.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, DareToDibble said:

I have discussed with my mate the worry that people turn Tory when they reach a certain age. I’d like to think better of people than that. If you’re in a nice house, with a well paid job, you should be happy to vote in a way that will allow it to be easier for future generations to do the same. Unfortunately it seems not everyone is that way inclined.

Sadly so. I’m going the other way, as I get older I seem to hate the Tories more and more. 

[JoeyT]

After a day away from the news / this thread it seems to have been relatively quiet.

Just thought I'd pop my head in to say unluckily for me Rees-Mogg is my MP. This means not only do I live amongst people who actually voted him in to his seat but I also have to see his face on my local high street far too often.

[jparx]

39 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

My Dad once told me (he’s a Lib Dem voter and member) that as you get older you veer more towards the Tories. In theory you’ll own property on a better paid job and their policies will align with that. So maybe there’s something in that.

Here's the thing - for me personally, as in my job and my finances, voting Tory is probably the most beneficial already, and I'm under 30. But I recognise that's a selfish outlook and I don't vote for them because I want society to be the best it can be, I want strong public services, I don't want people to have to rely on food banks etc. I can see people developing a more selfish attitude as they start a family, but I can't fathom turning selfish enough to vote for a party that disadvantages so many people.

[stuartbert two hats]

55 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

My Dad once told me (he’s a Lib Dem voter and member) that as you get older you veer more towards the Tories. In theory you’ll own property on a better paid job and their policies will align with that. So maybe there’s something in that.

 

I sometimes feel like it’s an abusive relationship they’ll keep on treating us like crap yet we’ll keep on voting them in h ally to believe the lies (I don’t mean for this to be insensitive!) 

People are just awful aren't they? As a software contractor working through a holding company, the tax policies of the Tories should align with my interests, what with lower corporation tax and all...but fuck that. I want a fairer society, a few hundred pounds here or there makes no difference, not now I'm a wealthy contractor. There's no way I'm going to vote Conservative.

[DareToDibble]

I still believe a lot of the people voting Tory do it because Labour are the ones who “let all the foreigners in”. Whilst finances undoubtedly comes into every Tory voter I okie (not that many I admit) did so because “Labour will just let anyone in to claim benefits”.

A bit issue Labour will have to overcome if they are to win an election.