When will this shit end?

[Ozanne]

6 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Yep, the one area they got things right was vaccine procurement, but looks like they've stuffed that up by letting the virus get so out of control, they've had to gamble with the delayed dosage and even then will struggle to vaccinate before this new wave overwhelms everything. 

The other thing is that they’ve had warnings over the Autumn wave and now this one yet they ignored them too.

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

I will cut them a tiny bit of slack on this one, the vaccines don't magically appear in peoples body's. It takes a huge amount of moving parts to keep this moving. I've maintained the rollout will take 12 months - but will start to see positive impact by May/June.

What I will drag them over the coals for is the decision to space the vaccine doses out, differently to what has been tested by manufacturers. If that proves to be a bad decision, then heads need to roll.

Normally I would agree, but they have made so other cock ups and broken promises this is surely their last chance. They have promised 2mill a week, 13 mill by Feb, back to normal by the spring etc. It is now essential they roll this out rapidly otherwise we really will have overwhelmed health services and a strict lockdown for months.

[xxialac]

10 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Yep, the one area they got things right was vaccine procurement, but looks like they've stuffed that up by letting the virus get so out of control, they've had to gamble with the delayed dosage and even then will struggle to vaccinate before this new wave overwhelms everything. 

I'm not convinced they did get vaccine procurement right.

They turned down being part of the EU procurement, not as a clever strategy but as an ideological snub. They can't claim credit for that decision.

And early vaccine rollout was because the UK decided unlike all other countries to do an emergency approval, which has nothing to do with procurement.

If Russia does an emergency approval, we would say they were cutting corners and not going through the proper checks and balances. But when it's the UK, it's beyond challenge.

[fraybentos1]

9 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

Hospital rates and deaths coming down in a meaningul way. 

And vaccinating most of the population within a 12 month period, would not be disgradecul at all. It would be pretty remarkable really. See how far the US/France get in 12 months.

 

You think it will take most of the population being vaccinated to see deaths and hospital rates going down? That makes no sense.

Nearly all hospital admissions come from over 60s. 

[MrBarry465]

9 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

You think it will take most of the population being vaccinated to see deaths and hospital rates going down? That makes no sense.

Nearly all hospital admissions come from over 60s. 

Where did I say that? I said meaningul way by May / June didn't I? 

I then said most of the population to be vaccinated within 12 months.

[MrBarry465]

16 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Normally I would agree, but they have made so other cock ups and broken promises this is surely their last chance. They have promised 2mill a week, 13 mill by Feb, back to normal by the spring etc. It is now essential they roll this out rapidly otherwise we really will have overwhelmed health services and a strict lockdown for months.

Restictions will be gradually pulled back, we won't be 'back to normal by spring' regardless. Thats in 2 months time,  the tiering system will be back.

[efcfanwirral]

50 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

The not delivering on Sundays and after lunch thing is ridiculous and exactly what I expected. We have working hours and working days and we just stick to them. Its ridiculous and old fashioned

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

14 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I was saying the same thing a few days but was told ‘no country can get this right’ which lets the government off the hook. However as you say we have the worst of both worlds with a government that refuses to learn from their mistakes and acts too late every single time. It’s happened again now and with Christmas added on top I shudder to think of the damage they’ve inflicted upon the country. 

What was actually said is no country has got every decision right. 

Our government have made some awful decisions and if you looked at the vast majority of governments around the world under the microscope you will find other governments have made equally odd decisions - it's comes making decisions you make some right calls, you make some wrong calls, you make some early calls and you make some late calls. Correct decisions don't tend to live long on the memory. 

This government has a track record of dithering but not all nations have the same options avalaible to them - doing an Australia or a New Zealand can't be done by everyone. 

IF they get the vaccine roll out to plan, and the call around delaying doses right it's a brilliant decision and it will have bene a calculated risk like all decisions are right down to crossing the road. IF that turns out to be the right move we may well turn out to be in a far better position than much of the world and in a position to provide other countries which really need out help and expertise.

Some of these countries that have it 'right' could make a real pigs ear of easing restrictions and the next stages they are only one or two poor decisions away from a shit storm isolationism will only work for so long - once travel starts again Australia and New Zealand will have to open up their boarders again to easier movement of good ands people. 

Sometimes you have to take the political blinkers off and accept that whoever is in power is going to make mistakes in a ever changing unprecedented situation. It's an easy time to be in opposition you can make all the statements and decisions on what you would do with zero responsibility.

That's not excusing the mistakes - it's just accepting that they happen in times like this. 

 

[Toilet Duck]

14 minutes ago, xxialac said:

I'm not convinced they did get vaccine procurement right.

They turned down being part of the EU procurement, not as a clever strategy but as an ideological snub. They can't claim credit for that decision.

And early vaccine rollout was because the UK decided unlike all other countries to do an emergency approval, which has nothing to do with procurement.

If Russia does an emergency approval, we would say they were cutting corners and not going through the proper checks and balances. But when it's the UK, it's beyond challenge.

To be fair though, Russia’s emergency approval was after 78 patients! The MHRA EUA was after interim phase 3 data that was strong. 

[xxialac]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Normally I would agree, but they have made so other cock ups and broken promises this is surely their last chance. They have promised 2mill a week, 13 mill by Feb, back to normal by the spring etc. It is now essential they roll this out rapidly otherwise we really will have overwhelmed health services and a strict lockdown for months.

It's hopeless.  They're constantly chasing their tail. They caused this mess and now they're chronically promising what they can't deliver, which they'll nonetheless spin as success.

The truth is we elected a serially incompetent government, whose individuals are uniformly chosen not because of their abilities but because of their adherence to an ideology, and we will all pay the price as they stoke divisions and run this country into the ground.

In a year or two 'The Sick Man of Europe' will be the headline in foreign newspapers.

[stuartbert two hats]

9 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

Where did I say that? I said meaningul way by May / June didn't I? 

I then said most of the population to be vaccinated within 12 months.

I think the problem is the definition of meaningful. I think we'll see death be under half of their current levels in February.

[DeanoL]

3 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

What was actually said is no country has got every decision right. 

Our government have made some awful decisions and if you looked at the vast majority of governments around the world under the microscope you will find other governments have made equally odd decisions - it's comes making decisions you make some right calls, you make some wrong calls, you make some early calls and you make some late calls. Correct decisions don't tend to live long on the memory. 

This government has a track record of dithering but not all nations have the same options avalaible to them - doing an Australia or a New Zealand can't be done by everyone. 

IF they get the vaccine roll out to plan, and the call around delaying doses right it's a brilliant decision and it will have bene a calculated risk like all decisions are right down to crossing the road. IF that turns out to be the right move we may well turn out to be in a far better position than much of the world and in a position to provide other countries which really need out help and expertise.

Some of these countries that have it 'right' could make a real pigs ear of easing restrictions and the next stages they are only one or two poor decisions away from a shit storm isolationism will only work for so long - once travel starts again Australia and New Zealand will have to open up their boarders again to easier movement of good ands people. 

Sometimes you have to take the political blinkers off and accept that whoever is in power is going to make mistakes in a ever changing unprecedented situation. It's an easy time to be in opposition you can make all the statements and decisions on what you would do with zero responsibility.

That's not excusing the mistakes - it's just accepting that they happen in times like this. 

 

I broadly agree with that but I think the way the government funnelled money to their mates, instead of hiring the best people for the job, is inexcusable. It’s one thing to have two candidates at the end of a procurement process who seem on par, and pick the wrong one. It’s another thing to give billions to a company with no track record in the field, following non procurement process whatsoever.

We can argue the toss about economy vs saving lives, and making the best decisions with the info available, but the track and trace disaster is inexcusable.

[MrBarry465]

2 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I think the problem is the definition of meaningful. I think we'll see death be under half of their current levels in February.

I like your optimisim. 

New vaccine, new rollout program, novel virus and its spreading quickly. Lets see how it pans out.

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

Anyone who works for the NHS / Pharmacists do Pharmacies have access to update NHS Records I'm assuming there is going need to be a lot of recording for this roll out to work.

What vaccine you had, what batch, when you had it etc... Never mind how you then book in the second jab does it have to be same palace etc.. 

Does this important practical admin account for PHE descion not to use pharmacies to deliver the jab? 

I guess it also adds another leg in the distribution chain. 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

3 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I broadly agree with that but I think the way the government funnelled money to their mates, instead of hiring the best people for the job, is inexcusable. It’s one thing to have two candidates at the end of a procurement process who seem on par, and pick the wrong one. It’s another thing to give billions to a company with no track record in the field, following non procurement process whatsoever.

We can argue the toss about economy vs saving lives, and making the best decisions with the info available, but the track and trace disaster is inexcusable.

I don't disagree after the care homes debacle that is probably the second 'most criminal' act of this government and I hope their day in the dock comes although I suspect it won't. 

This again isn't a situation unique to the UK though. Its just that we are understandably far more aware of it here. 

[xxialac]

13 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

What was actually said is no country has got every decision right. 

Our government have made some awful decisions and if you looked at the vast majority of governments around the world under the microscope you will find other governments have made equally odd decisions - it's comes making decisions you make some right calls, you make some wrong calls, you make some early calls and you make some late calls. Correct decisions don't tend to live long on the memory. 

This government has a track record of dithering but not all nations have the same options avalaible to them - doing an Australia or a New Zealand can't be done by everyone. 

IF they get the vaccine roll out to plan, and the call around delaying doses right it's a brilliant decision and it will have bene a calculated risk like all decisions are right down to crossing the road. IF that turns out to be the right move we may well turn out to be in a far better position than much of the world and in a position to provide other countries which really need out help and expertise.

Some of these countries that have it 'right' could make a real pigs ear of easing restrictions and the next stages they are only one or two poor decisions away from a shit storm isolationism will only work for so long - once travel starts again Australia and New Zealand will have to open up their boarders again to easier movement of good ands people. 

Sometimes you have to take the political blinkers off and accept that whoever is in power is going to make mistakes in a ever changing unprecedented situation. It's an easy time to be in opposition you can make all the statements and decisions on what you would do with zero responsibility.

That's not excusing the mistakes - it's just accepting that they happen in times like this. 

 

"We may well turn out to be in a far better position to provide other countries which really need out help and expertise."

Said with no hint of irony on the day the UK records a staggering 60,000 cases, with the virus allowed to get completely out of control and days away from overwhelming our hospitals.

 

[Crazyfool01]

5 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Anyone who works for the NHS / Pharmacists do Pharmacies have access to update NHS Records I'm assuming there is going need to be a lot of recording for this roll out to work.

What vaccine you had, what batch, when you had it etc... Never mind how you then book in the second jab does it have to be same palace etc.. 

Does this important practical admin account for PHE descion not to use pharmacies to deliver the jab? 

I guess it also adds another leg in the distribution chain. 

Do we need to go to the palace for a jab then ? Is it like a knighthood now ? 🙂 

[xxialac]

In other news Kanye West and Kim Kardashian are getting divorced. Suspect they fell out over their views on the UK government's response to Covid.

[zahidf]

 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

13 minutes ago, xxialac said:

"We may well turn out to be in a far better position to provide other countries which really need out help and expertise."

Said with no hint of irony on the day the UK records a staggering 60,000 cases, with the virus allowed to get completely out of control and days away from overwhelming our hospitals.

 

IF in 4 to 6 months time we have a well protected (vaccinated), skilled and tried and tested vaccination programme we can be of vital importance to helping other less fortunate parts of the world get on top of this virus and bring a more normal world back. 

Don't forget PHE and the NHS aren't the government. 

[xxialac]

Just now, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

IF in 4 to 6 months time we have a well protected (vaccinated), skilled and tried and tested vaccination programme we can be of vital importance to helping other less fortunate parts of the world get on top of this virus and bring a more normal world back. 

Don't forget PHE and the NHS aren't the government. 

The context of the thread of the conversation focused on the government.  And in any case the NHS and PHE have a UK remit only

I don't understand the endless IFs. Nothing about the last 9 months points to a series of successes to come.

And the UK doesn't do altruism any more. We literally slashed our aid budget only a month ago and Patel spends her time trying to deport refugees and undermine human rights. 'Charity begins at home' is the mantra.

 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

1 minute ago, xxialac said:

The context of the thread of the conversation focused on the government.  And in any case the NHS and PHE have a UK remit only

I don't understand the endless IFs. Nothing about the last 9 months points to a series of successes to come.

And the UK doesn't do altruism any more. We literally slashed our aid budget only a month ago and Patel spends her time trying to deport refugees and undermine human rights. 'Charity begins at home' is the mantra.

 

You can provide expertise without having boots on the ground - the UK government does this via various depends and arms lengths bodies and trading funds on the global stage at organisations like the UN. This isn't aid, it's effectively consultancy. 

The it's are because of the understandable doubts around our ability to deliver 2millon jabs a week - because we aren't doing it now. Two days in. The complexity involved in something like this is phenomenal and we might not get two million vaccines delivered a week this week or next week, or ever but to get anywhere near 2 million is a stupendous effort and things will do wrong they do with every project whatever the scale. 

Personally if this was a project I was involved in I'd have given myself longer to get to that scale from a standing start - but frankly I'm not under the same microscope as the government. Do I believe they can hit the target of 2 million a week - yes I do. Do I think by the end of this month probably not.

If we deliver the jab to the identified groups between the end of Feb / mid March then we are in a very different position the one we are in now and that cannot be seen as anything but a positive. 

Its possible, no doubt about but there are a lot of moving parts and there will be days and weeks when things don't go to plan like there is in every walk of life every day. 

I think we will just about mange it - we have far more infrastructure and experience in this sort of thing than many of the other challenges the country has faced during this pandemic to date. 

 

 

 

 

[MrBarry465]

Personally I think they will get a 1.5 million a week done and that would be a good effort.

[Punksnotdead]

On 1/5/2021 at 12:22 AM, Bdva said:

I live next door to the racecourse and was worried that there was even a small chance if it going ahead. It’s bad enough on a normal year, drunk Irish people sleeping in your garden! Loss economically for the town but needed to happen 

You are aware that you sound like one of the old Pilton residents in the 80's? - "bloody unwashed hippies urinating & defecating in our gardens!" 😄

As you say it needed to happen, but it will be devastating to many small businesses. Cheltenham would be fucked (financially) without the festival.

[Leyrulion]

5 hours ago, funkychick2007 said:

@crazyfool1 found it! 

My details got passed onto St John's ambulance today for this, say they have had thousands of volunteers and are now sorting through. Said they will send details of training etc asap.