Bob Vylan Chants

[Helsbels]

Firstly Im totally against what is going on in Gaza but as someone who's partner is Jewish (non practicing) it worries me that this sort of thing riles people up and will make anti semitism worse 

[CaledonianGonzo]

4 minutes ago, Nicklord said:

I don't think they're racist. I think they used antisemitic language. I think that should be criticized (and that's it, no need to involve the police or whatever the right-wing press is writing) - there's nothing wrong with what Glastonbury wrote about them.

 

The thing is that *some* people consider From The River To The Sea to be antisemitic slogan, but plenty more people don't.  And the former certainly holds no weight from a legal standpoint.  So Vylan would be well within their rights to think that they've been libelled.

[xxialac]

3 minutes ago, Nicklord said:

I don't think they're racist. I think they used antisemitic language. I think that should be criticized (and that's it, no need to involve the police or whatever the right-wing press is writing) - there's nothing wrong with what Glastonbury wrote about them.

OK, thanks for engaging so respectfully. 

 

I think racism including antisemitism at its heart is about intent. Many members of UKIP and Reform for example are racist and use dogwhistles to their base rather than say clearly racist statements.

 

Here I really don't think they were "antisemitic sentiments". They were "anti-israeli government" sentiments, forcefully expressed (as punks).

[lazyred]

53 minutes ago, xxialac said:

And the Strawman Prize for 2025 goes to…

 

I just want Israel to stop forcing ordinary people from Gaza from where they live by continually firing missiles on them and reducing their homes to rubble. And to stop killing innocent civilians including children day in day out and in vast numbers.

 

Any chance chaps you could stop with the genocide. Too much to ask?

They aren't my chaps. Withholding aid is a war crime. Settling the West bank is illegal. Netanyahu is corrupt. Storming a music festival, raping and murdering and kidnapping is what? regrettable? But we can't do anything about that so lets not mention it.  

[narwhal]

13 minutes ago, Threestripes said:

Did  any of the attention seeking virtue signallers mention releasing the hostages??

 

 

 

Mentioning the hostages would also be virtue signaling for attention, just a different virtue to bring attention to. 

[gizmoman]

17 minutes ago, xxialac said:

The other thing not being cited on here is that society makes special allowance in society for certain musicians (punk, as here, rap etc) as well as comedians to break taboos and say highly provocative things.

 

We simply don't hold them to the same standard as if the same words are used outside of performative art. This is universally understood.

 

And if we don't feel comfortable with such extreme forms of art, we don't attend.

It's amazing that people don't understand hyperbole, they are deliberately exaggerating their message in order to provoke the audience and get a reaction, the hope is people will then think about the subject, whether that is the royal family, palestine, racism, whatever. This is the problem with "hate speech" laws, they examine every comment and take it literally enabling censorship of every non conformist opinion. Everyone supports free speech until they hear something they don't like.  Unfortunately this hysteria won't help the Palestinians in any way though, it will just stifle expression in this country.

[SouthbanKen]

On 29/06/2025 at 12:10, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

Dismissing people who oppose calls for violence are crybabies and/or the fash. Lol.

 

If the BNP walked out tomorrow in front of Parliament and chanted "Death, death, death to Palestine Action", you'd all call them racist and whatever other -ists you'd pluck from your hashtag bag.

 

And again, Israel is the equivalent of Ukraine here. They are the two defending countries here.

 

Glastonbury have made this mess themselves by siding with groups that would rather "up" Hamas and Hezbollah rather than with the only liberal democracy in the Middle East. 

 

 

 

 

This bit in bold is patently nonsense. 
 

Israel have been illegally settling people in Palestinian land for years. That is not an act of defense, that is an act of aggression. 
 

The retribution dealt to the Palestinian people (50,000 plus dead and millions displaced) since Oct 7 (under 1000 dead) is way way way out of proportion, making it a war crime. 
 

The fact you need to lie to support your position diminishes your other relatively reasonable points. 

 

[Spindles]

6 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

The thing is that *some* people consider From The River To The Sea to be antisemitic slogan, but plenty more people don't.  And the former certainly holds no weight from a legal standpoint.  So Vylan would be well within their rights to think that they've been libelled.

Indeed.  In it's use context was absolutely provided and it would take deliberate misrepresentation to portray it as otherwise.  From the river to the sea, Palestine must be free. 

 

That doesn't represent a call for ethnic cleansing (which we ALL know is what is happening right now), but a call for the people to be free, free to live their lives without repression, without their lands and property being stolen and destroyed by illegal settlers, free from the harassment from the IDF, free to just be human beings and raise their families without living in fear.

[xxialac]

2 minutes ago, lazyred said:

They aren't my chaps. Withholding aid is a war crime. Settling the West bank is illegal. Netanyahu is corrupt. Storming a music festival, raping and murdering and kidnapping is what? regrettable? But we can't do anything about that so lets not mention it.  

It's anecdotal but this is from last year's festival Glastonbury:

 

"Outside our small group of 'friends', we got nothing but love for carrying those flags. We couldn't walk five minutes without someone stopping to give us a hug, thank us for carrying the flags, take pictures with us, dance with us, cry with us in their memory. We got to meet so many amazing people dealing with the trauma in their own ways, including gestures of their own: anything from a We Will Dance Again t-shirt or a #bringthemhomenow bracelet, to Free the Hostages written all over their chest. So many people felt included, empowered and safer when seeing those flags, and we were so grateful for their love and for the opportunity to meet them and share this experience.

Waking up to see the 'boycott' sticker each morning, I couldn't help but smile, think of all the love I'd received at the festival, and really feel the meaning of Our Love is Stronger Than Their Hate. Even non-Jewish people who didn't know about the Nova festival but cared to ask, had nothing but love and empathy to offer, regardless of their political views or thoughts about the war" 

 

There are a lot of atrocities everywhere. To focus on one doesn't mean you have no empathy for another.

 

And it is understandable that a lot of attention is on Gaza right now.

[Colorblindjames]

17 hours ago, Suprefan said:

 

HAHAHAHAHHAHAH yes they do. Its called Youtube. They can handle the web traffic and already have a multiview option. Youre funny. Coachella has 7 channels during the festival and it changes instantly to the other stage. Or you can place diff stages on your screen and just move the cursor for the audio feed. You lot know nothing about NFL Sunday Ticket and what innovations to sports viewing its brought. Now its happening to music live streams. Youtube would be open to everyone around the world and nobody has to use a vpn. Glasto can use the ad revenue to earn even more to donate to charity and such. But oh right, lets stay stuck in the past and stick with some bullshit content controller.

Clearly this was posted by someone who’s never even watched the coachella coverage. It’s dire. 

[CaledonianGonzo]

4 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

Clearly this was posted by someone who’s never even watched the coachella coverage. It’s dire. 

 

The people who film Coachella clearly hate it and want to show it off in the worst light possible.

 

Whereas the Beeb do Glastonbury proud.

[mattiloy]

This debate sucks. It’s not the violence- rap musics full of it and nobody says anything; also this year the same spectator that is currently shitting and pissing it’s pants over this published an article defending banter regarding Andrew Gwynne MP texts about his hope that a constituent be run over by a truck..

 

Equally, if an artist anywhere at anytime got up on the stage and said death to russia or Iran, absolutely nothing would have happened.

 

The special treatment of the genocidal maniacs is the only ’appalling’ thing here.

 

f**k these cowards, f**k BBC, f**k Keir Starmer, f**k the lot of them.

[Colorblindjames]

1 hour ago, siblin said:

Interestingly not there this year though.  Can’t say it’s a safe space for anyone who wants to openly voice the opinion that in spite of sh*tty things the Israeli government are doing the state of Israel has a right to exist 

Flying an Israeli flag at present is an indication that you are cool with genocide. 

[Colorblindjames]

41 minutes ago, Mand3 said:

It's obvious people want the hostages released and the war to stop. 

Yea the Palestinians had it so good just before Oct7.

[siblin]

2 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

Flying an Israeli flag at present is an indication that you are cool with genocide. 

The fact you make that statement proves my point.  

[Colorblindjames]

16 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

The people who film Coachella clearly hate it and want to show it off in the worst light possible.

 

Whereas the Beeb do Glastonbury proud.

Clearly after the events this weekend the BBC no longer do Glastonbury proud. 

[Colorblindjames]

Just now, siblin said:

The fact you make that statement proves my point.  

Not sure what point you are trying to make. But whatever. 

[siblin]

Just now, Colorblindjames said:

Not sure what point you are trying to make. But whatever. 

That there are many incapable of understanding the nuances of a complex situation on a forum, let alone at a music festival - so other posters saying that someone could have flown an Israeli flag without repercussions and that some of the more aggressive chants aren’t going to make people feel uncomfortable is disingenuous.

[Colorblindjames]

2 minutes ago, siblin said:

That there are many incapable of understanding the nuances of a complex situation on a forum, let alone at a music festival - so other posters saying that someone could have flown an Israeli flag without repercussions and that some of the more aggressive chants aren’t going to make people feel uncomfortable is disingenuous.

It’s clear you didn’t even understand the nuance of my post.

[xxialac]

9 minutes ago, siblin said:

That there are many incapable of understanding the nuances of a complex situation on a forum, let alone at a music festival - so other posters saying that someone could have flown an Israeli flag without repercussions and that some of the more aggressive chants aren’t going to make people feel uncomfortable is disingenuous.

Protesting an ongoing genocide in the hope that the Israeli government can be pressured is far more important than a few people who feel uncomfortable. Indeed there were no zero reports of actual hostility towards any Jewish people. 

 

And as has been mentioned, those people felt so incredibly uncomfortable they doxed themselves.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Made me laugh

 

 

 

[xxialac]

1 hour ago, lazyred said:

They aren't my chaps. Withholding aid is a war crime. Settling the West bank is illegal. Netanyahu is corrupt. Storming a music festival, raping and murdering and kidnapping is what? regrettable? But we can't do anything about that so lets not mention it.  

Extending your whataboutery, I note you haven’t mentioned the Israeli minister who has just called on every man in Gaza to be killed.

 

Why is that? I thought you were in favour of everything being mentioned?
 

 

[DeanoL]

2 hours ago, Nicklord said:

In theory, there's nothing wrong with that slogan. In practice, especially in the last several years, it's used mainly by Hamas to describe a country without Jewish people and by Israel's government to describe the opposite. I fail to see how using that slogan isn't antisemitic when used like Bob Vylan did, especially combined with the other chants and things said on the stage.

 

Glastonbury called them out specifically for being antisemitic. They didn't say anything about so many others who commented on the genocide this weekend. I think it's a straightforward situation. 

I'm honestly not sure how we get to the idea that *not* supporting Israel's right to exist is antisemitic. Post WW2 the European powers essentially gave Israel a bunch of land that wasn't their to give in the first place. 

 

While personally I'm in support of a two-state solution, I don't think to have the opinion that actually, Israel shouldn't be there at all is antisemitic. That's a discussion of boundaries and land and has nothing to do with ones opinion on the actual people involved. 

 

Again, thinking Northern Ireland shouldn't exist doesn't mean I think every Northern Irish person needs to die. Just that a different political settlement is needed.

[Nicklord]

9 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I'm honestly not sure how we get to the idea that *not* supporting Israel's right to exist is antisemitic. Post WW2 the European powers essentially gave Israel a bunch of land that wasn't their to give in the first place. 

 

While personally I'm in support of a two-state solution, I don't think to have the opinion that actually, Israel shouldn't be there at all is antisemitic. That's a discussion of boundaries and land and has nothing to do with ones opinion on the actual people involved. 

 

Again, thinking Northern Ireland shouldn't exist doesn't mean I think every Northern Irish person needs to die. Just that a different political settlement is needed.

The difference is that Hamas and Hezbollah (and Iran and some other groups) made it very clear what they mean by that slogan. It's not just giving the land to the Palestinian people to govern. 

[BBC7BBCHEAVEN]

2 hours ago, Nicklord said:

I don't think they're racist. I think they used antisemitic language. I think that should be criticized (and that's it, no need to involve the police or whatever the right-wing press is writing) - there's nothing wrong with what Glastonbury wrote about them.

What did they say that was antisemitic?