Blisterpack

True. And this isn’t genocide.

I want the best for the Palestinian people. And that’s a government that recognises the legitimacy of its neighbours, has a legitimacy of its own and provides for its people. I also think that is the order it needs to happen in.

I dislike Netanyahu and his govt with a passion. I want Sunak out. I don’t want to see another Trump presidency. I can separate the state from the government with all of them. I also think a government in Gaza (and the West Bank) that puts the needs of its people first rather than using energy trying to reverse something that the rest of the Arab world - with the exception of Iran and its proxies - has reconciled with would help immeasurably. This is not how jihadists think though, sadly.

We won’t agree, you’re correct.

I think the broader point is that Israel embraces socially liberal principles that should be valued and respected and the millions of people who benefit from that (LGBTQ+ and women) would be at significant risk if Israel ceased to exist. The non- Jihadist amongst the world’s population should at least be fighting for them surely….?

About 20% of Israel is Arab. That figure is generally represented in civil society and the professions. Most recent polling shows that they would not consider giving up their Israeli citizenship.

It’s not a matter of ‘hating’ them. Israel is an established nation and has been for decades. There are younger nations throughout the world. Borders change, countries emerge, disappear and sometimes re-appear. The current succour being provided by many (not all) on the left to the surrounding Theocracies, most anti women and anti LBBTQ+, is so hard to understand. Israel was the first country in the world to abolish anti gay laws and to legalise abortion. Hamas would reverse both if Israel ‘ceased to exist’.

Israel is constitutionally secular, not religious. It was a postwar haven for jewish atheists and communists/socialists who were vulnerable from all sides. The left supported them for decades, save for a few on the hard left who promoted the globalist banking elite tropes. Unfortunately they have found a mainstream audience now. Israel’s neighbours are religious states.

Given that nearly half of the Jews in the world actually LIVE in Israel, then that is a bit of a stretch…..

I’m in my 60’s and have been ‘on the left’ my whole life. This relatively new shift of the hard left and hard right ‘swapping sides’ on Israel makes me sick. Believe me, there are plenty of us still out there who have your back.

Apologies, got caught up in the general discussion. My old school leftist leanings had always had me grateful to Israel for finding a home from the outset for the communists and atheists around the world who felt doubly vulnerable after WW2. They were the architects of a great secular democracy surrounded by threatening Theocracies and have contributed hugely to the world of science, culture, philosophy - everything. The fact that secularism has allowed them to be at the forefront of gay rights, women’s right, and when they are not under attack human rights generally used to be celebrated by the left. Netanyahu is a monster but he can be ousted by the people of Israel.

Not a woosh mate. Pointing out the ludicrous nature of the comparison.

Is the pro-Palestine stance you support the two state solution that the Arabs have rejected numerous times or the one that treats women and LGBTQ+ people as third rate citizens? I suspect Hamas/ Islamic Jihad/Hezbollah and all the other cranks that Israel - one of the first Nations on the planet to legalise homosexuality and abortion - fights off on a daily basis will not be over impressed with Emily’s efforts on diversity and inclusivity.

Except you didn’t.

The targeting of the Jewish audience members was antisemitic. Anyone who argues otherwise is either antisemitic themselves or happy to defend it for some other reason.