Bob Vylan Chants

[steviewevie]

Just now, BobMahelp said:

What do you believe that it means? And in what way as people getting confused?

 

Personally I believe in a peaceful two state solution using the 1967 borders, with full recognition of Palestine.

 

I think that means I’m a Zionist, right?

Yes

[BobMahelp]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

Yes

So in what way is the term being confused?

[xxialac]

4 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

You make a good point, though I also feel there's a difference in that the Labour party are not generally in a situation where they are likely to be killed. The IDF are. Had that article been published immediately after the death of Jo Cox, it absolutely would have been called out in the same way.

Respect your words but the IDF is an army the other side of the world. The people that want to kill them are Hamas, I dont think watching a punk band on iplayer via VPN is going to make that sentiment any stronger. 

Edited July 1, 2025 by xxialac

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, BobMahelp said:

So in what way is the term being confused?

I think it can mean 4 different things...for some it means the original movement wanting a Jewish state, for others it means anyone living in or supporting the current state of Israel, for others it is used for settlers in West Bank and those wanting a Greater Israel, and for others it is just another word for Jew.

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

15 minutes ago, xxialac said:

No, you are wrong.

 

It is comparable.

 

In fact more eyeballs would have seen that front page headline than would have seen Vylan performing on tv and it doesn’t say The Death of the Labour Party.

 

It says ‘Death to the Labour Party’

Both this and Vylan’s comments are fine as they are aimed at organisations. 

 

But context matters. "Death, death, death to the IDF" was clearly made in a threatening manner, inline with the rest of his comments about wiping Israel from the map.

 

Claiming the Labour party is out of touch and irrelevant is something else, entirely.

[steviewevie]

Just now, steviewevie said:

I think it can mean 4 different things...for some it means the original movement wanting a Jewish state, for others it means anyone living in or supporting the current state of Israel, for others it is used for settlers in West Bank and those wanting a Greater Israel, and for others it is just another word for Jew.

For me I think a zionist is someone who wanted to establish a Jewish state, and an anti-zionist is someone who is against that. Someone who lives in Israel is an Israei, the Israeli govt is likud and other far right parties, the settlers are religious extremists, and Jews are Jews.

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

13 minutes ago, BobMahelp said:

What do you believe that it means? And in what way as people getting confused?

 

Personally I believe in a peaceful two state solution using the 1967 borders, with full recognition of Palestine.

 

I think that means I’m a Zionist, right?

 

If only Palestine had accepted the many attempts to create an independent country, as Israel has done and wished Palestine to do the same.

[xxialac]

2 minutes ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

 

But context matters. "Death, death, death to the IDF" was clearly made in a threatening manner, inline with the rest of his comments about wiping Israel from the map.

 

Claiming the Labour party is out of touch and irrelevant is something else, entirely.

You cannot threaten something that evidently cannot take place (glastonbury viewers to attack the Israeli army).

 

I note you selectively ignore my point about why Death TO (not of) the Labour Party.

 

Out of curiosity, if a French army invaded Britain and murdered civilians, would you think it appalling and threatening if people shouted Death to the French Army?

 

If not, would love you to educate me on the difference!

[Rusty Spoon]

[Spindles]

12 minutes ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

inline with the rest of his comments about wiping Israel from the map.

At no point has this been said.  Please do not sully decent and open discussion by making stuff up.

[maelzoid]

22 minutes ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

 

But context matters. "Death, death, death to the IDF" was clearly made in a threatening manner, inline with the rest of his comments about wiping Israel from the map.

 

Claiming the Labour party is out of touch and irrelevant is something else, entirely.

You need to provide evidence of this or retract it. 

I have not heard these comments from Bob Vylain, and had he made them from that stage, I am CERTAIN that would be the headline, because that is unambiguously anti-semitic hate speech. 

[Nobby's Old Boots]

My understanding was that, alongside the chants, BV saying they are not pacifists and instead believe in violence exacerbates the issue and goes against the ethos of the festival? The chant, if by itself, seems unlikely to have garnered such a strong response I'd have thought? But I might have read it wrong.

It's more difficult to argue they don't mean it literally about killing the IDF when they have also said they believe in violence.

 

Just all seems massively counter productive to allow yourself to become the story instead of the atrocities being committed literally as we speak about a set by an artist almost completely unknown to the general public.

 

I also feel for kneecap because whilst BV were- rightly so - showing  support and anger at the situation, their message of believing in violence as an answer seems completely at odds with kneecap's.

 

The unfortunate truth is that BV may have literally broken the law here and whilst in previous times they may have just been cautioned and things moved on, I now really fear that they and kneecap will be made an example of which is a very scary thought in terms of censorship and artistic freedom in this country.

 

What a mess.

 

Just as an aside, does anyone know why Kneecap are also apparently being investigated for their set? I've watched the whole thing back and can't work out why they're getting lumped in with this one.

[steviewevie]

11 minutes ago, Nobby's Old Boots said:

 

 

Just as an aside, does anyone know why Kneecap are also apparently being investigated for their set? I've watched the whole thing back and can't work out why they're getting lumped in with this one.

They said f**k Keir Starmer

[Joey Peeps]

A call for violence may be against the ethos of the festival but what he said still isn't antisemitic or hate speech. 

[Nobby's Old Boots]

12 minutes ago, Joey Peeps said:

A call for violence may be against the ethos of the festival but what he said still isn't antisemitic or hate speech. 

Which is why I didn't say it was either of those things.

[BobMahelp]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

For me I think a zionist is someone who wanted to establish a Jewish state, and an anti-zionist is someone who is against that. Someone who lives in Israel is an Israei, the Israeli govt is likud and other far right parties, the settlers are religious extremists, and Jews are Jews.

Would you say supporting Israel’s right to exist has become conflated with supporting the current actions of their government/army?

[DeanoL]

1 hour ago, xxialac said:

You cannot threaten something that evidently cannot take place (glastonbury viewers to attack the Israeli army).

 

I note you selectively ignore my point about why Death TO (not of) the Labour Party.

 

Out of curiosity, if a French army invaded Britain and murdered civilians, would you think it appalling and threatening if people shouted Death to the French Army?

 

If not, would love you to educate me on the difference!

And would you believe me if I then went "obviously I don't mean kill the French soldiers that are shooting at us, I just mean I want to politically dismantle the organisation of the French army"? 

[Euphoricape]

44 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

They said f**k Keir Starmer

I've heard millions of people say that without being arrested. Stormzy has the lyric "f**k the government and f**k Boris" in a number one single when Tories were in power.

[xxialac]

8 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

And would you believe me if I then went "obviously I don't mean kill the French soldiers that are shooting at us, I just mean I want to politically dismantle the organisation of the French army"? 

Absolutely fine, in which event BOTH use cases can easily be justified.

 

The only difference in that case between Death to the IDF (who are killing innocent Palestinians) and Death to the French Army (who are killing innocent British) is that in the former situation the victims are brown and foreign looking.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Euphoricape said:

I've heard millions of people say that without being arrested. Stormzy has the lyric "f**k the government and f**k Boris" in a number one single when Tories were in power.

it was a joke.

No idea why they're being investigated, police are going through it. I expect it will only be what Bob Vylan said, but then I only saw about half of Kneecap's set.

[Joey Peeps]

38 minutes ago, Nobby's Old Boots said:

Which is why I didn't say it was either of those things.

 

Wasn't aimed at you mate.

[narwhal]

1 hour ago, BobMahelp said:

What do you believe that it means? And in what way as people getting confused?

 

Personally I believe in a peaceful two state solution using the 1967 borders, with full recognition of Palestine.

 

I think that means I’m a Zionist, right?

You'd be in dispute with Theodor Herzl then, the founder of modern Zionism, who believed in no such thing. He did believe in a form of proto apartheid (denial of work to non-Jews) to force the Arab population.

 

He envisaged the Arab population would be deported to other countries. No two state solution appears in the core foundational texts of Zionism. 
 

Quote

“We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country.

“Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly”.

 Herzl, Theodor, The Complete Diaries (N.Y. Herzl Press, 1969), vol. I, p. 88.

[HotChipWillBreakYourLegs]

2 hours ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

 

A very poor attempt at misrepresenting the meaning of death in this article.

 

The article is talking about Labour serving no fit purpose anymore and becoming irrelevant. 

 

Whereas the IDF do serve a purpose, committing genocide, and are still relevant by continuing the genocide.

[Nobby's Old Boots]

12 minutes ago, Joey Peeps said:

 

Wasn't aimed at you mate.

Apologies

[Nobby's Old Boots]

14 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

it was a joke.

No idea why they're being investigated, police are going through it. I expect it will only be what Bob Vylan said, but then I only saw about half of Kneecap's set.

I'm sure they'll be going through it second by second desparate to find something but honestly can't see anything.

 

I know very very little about it, so will defer to someone who does, but even a cursory glance at the situation shows it seems very unlikely anything against BV would stick legally but it's still unnerving that it even gets this far - as to their relationship with Glastonbury, that looks like it might go the same way as their relationship with Slam Dunk (facts are disputed surrounding that, I know) but I think that's more the whole opposition to pacifism line if I'm honest.