Headliners 2023

[Florian Saucer Attack]

1 hour ago, Matt42 said:

My view is that the music industry is the most nepo centric industry going. You simply don’t make it big unless you know someone or you have parents already in it.

I'd say it's the monarchy business. It's all about who you are related too and who you marry. Very few people make it on merit

[mike46]

I love this website. The only reason Fred has sold out massive venues across the globe in seconds and the only reason none of us have is because Fred’s Eno’s neighbour 😂

 

Never change efests you wonderful people. 

[incident]

21 minutes ago, mike46 said:

I love this website. The only reason Fred has sold out massive venues across the globe in seconds and the only reason none of us have is because Fred’s Eno’s neighbour 😂

 

Never change efests you wonderful people. 

If you want to actively misinterpret people, strip all nuance from the discussion, and then exaggerate some - then yes.

[DeanoL]

1 hour ago, Hugh Jass II said:

Paris Hilton is one of the most well connected women on the planet. She had the money and connections to launch a pop career, she got massive label backing and released an album…

It fell flat on her face because the music was terrible and nobody bought it. That’s the meritocracy in action.

Having a minimum required level of talent for success is not the same as a meritocracy by any stretch of the imagination.

If you go for a job interview in something you have twelve years of experience in, and also applying are the CFO's daughter who is just out of uni with a degree in that sector, and the CEO's pet monkey, it's not a meritocracy when they hire the daughter. "It can't be nepotism or they would have hired the monkey"

Just because some talent is required, doesn't mean the most talented are the ones that succeed. A meritocracy means the best succeed. People not getting jobs they literally can't do isn't a meritocracy, it's the minimum requirement for a functioning society.

[Suprefan]

Verdict is only rich people who make good music are cool.

 

touring grosses for the year so you can measure who is who when it comes to selling out and such. Youll have # 1 but you cant deny

 

 

https://news.pollstar.com/2022/12/12/https-www-pollstar-com-yearend2022/

[nikkic]

15 hours ago, BenG92 said:

The idea that "anyone" could become a world class DJ just because Brian Eno is their neighbour is definitely... a take. 

This is the thing people who are beating Fred with the middle class stick seem to forget. 

You just don’t get to the skill level he has without hours and hours of practice, hard work and dedication. 

There will be countless examples of youngsters who have more money and more industry connections, yet go no where. 

[CaledonianGonzo]

6 minutes ago, nikkic said:

You just don’t get to the skill level he has without hours and hours of practice, hard work and dedication. 

I don't really know much about this Fred lad so don't have much of a dog in this race.

But being from a wealthy background gives you the time and the financial safety net to be able to take that time to hone a craft.

Anyone else is doing it in the spare time inbetween working a job, and probably without access to the other necessary resources (equipment, rehearsal space, etc)

[nikkic]

12 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

I don't really know much about this Fred lad so don't have much of a dog in this race.

But being from a wealthy background gives you the time and the financial safety net to be able to take that time to hone a craft.

Anyone else is doing it in the spare time inbetween working a job, and probably without access to the other necessary resources (equipment, rehearsal space, etc)

Of course, but you still have to do the work, which is the key thing most are forgetting. They gloss over the fact he has put a lot of work into honing his craft. 

If I live next to Lionel Messi it doesn’t automatically mean I’m going to develop the footballing prowess to win the World Cup. 

[Suprefan]

31 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

I don't really know much about this Fred lad so don't have much of a dog in this race.

But being from a wealthy background gives you the time and the financial safety net to be able to take that time to hone a craft.

Anyone else is doing it in the spare time inbetween working a job, and probably without access to the other necessary resources (equipment, rehearsal space, etc)

You know dj's/producers/rappers just need a laptop, a mic and maybe a keyboard to make a track or record? I mean Lil Nas X bought the sample to Old Town Road for $30 and then the rest happened. What financial safety net did he have when he made that song? Soundcloud exists for a reason and people have gotten popular that way. Hell, Halsey was practically homeless and was thinking about becoming a prostitute to survive when they met somebody who made music at a party and liked their voice and asked to do vocals on a track. It got put onto soundcloud which then got label attention then signed a record deal.

[Hugh Jass II]

7 hours ago, DeanoL said:

Having a minimum required level of talent for success is not the same as a meritocracy by any stretch of the imagination.

If you go for a job interview in something you have twelve years of experience in, and also applying are the CFO's daughter who is just out of uni with a degree in that sector, and the CEO's pet monkey, it's not a meritocracy when they hire the daughter. "It can't be nepotism or they would have hired the monkey"

Just because some talent is required, doesn't mean the most talented are the ones that succeed. A meritocracy means the best succeed. People not getting jobs they literally can't do isn't a meritocracy, it's the minimum requirement for a functioning society.

Having a career in music is not the same as getting a job at via interview is it?

I haven’t denied that connections get feet in doors and people signed to labels. But my point is that after the initial leg up they’re on their own and at the mercy of the general public. All the money and connections in the world aren’t going to help them if they’re not actually any good.

[anditmakesmesmile]

Only 8% of the country go to private school.  And yet the majority of those who succeed in the music industry were educated privately. Fred Again went Marlborough College, Florence Welch went to Alleyns, Jungle went to Latimer, Ed Sheeran went to Framlingham College (the prep school), etc etc etc.

My view, however, is that the problem doesn’t lie with the independent sector, but with the state sector. The state sector over the past 20 years has become so obsessed with league tables, exam results and Ofsted reports that most schools (not all) have a very narrow focus. The independent sector is less concerned with these aspects and gives young people the opportunity to fail at things. And to eventually find out what they might be interested in and good at. The opportunity for young people to learn that it’s OK to get things wrong, to fail first, and move on is such an invaluable lesson.  Particularly in the creative arts. 

[BenG92]

15 hours ago, BambooShanks said:

I think the education, skills, knowledge, equipment and industry contacts that he gained from that relationship would have made an immeasurable difference to a large number of competent, young musicians and  led to varying degrees of success.

Coming from a wealthy background allows a certain amount of freedom to pursue careers that can take years to start paying off.

While both those things are meaningless without dedication and a lot of hard work, either of those can make a crucial difference and open doors that are closed to the vast majority of musicians.

I think this is a much better way to say what you were originally trying to say and I agree. It was the flippancy in thinking that having Eno as a mentor somehow guarantees success and that many people here could have done the same that sounded a bit silly, the kid's incredibly talented whether people like his tunes or not. As mentioned by someone else, Paris Hilton's $300m fortune didn't help her DJ game and she could have bought Brian Eno. Same with Sheeran, you don't just get lucky with consistent chart-destroying songs - I despise that Shotgun track but that's already Fred showing his chops -  and his Boiler Room set is one of the best things on their channel entirely on his own merit.

I do have a feeling people are going to get really sick of hearing about him if they haven't already, though. Just hope it doesn't turn people off checking him out.

[Mouseboy11]

59 minutes ago, Hugh Jass II said:

Having a career in music is not the same as getting a job at via interview is it?

I haven’t denied that connections get feet in doors and people signed to labels. But my point is that after the initial leg up they’re on their own and at the mercy of the general public. All the money and connections in the world aren’t going to help them if they’re not actually any good.

I see what you’re saying and I agree to a point but there’s still plenty of talentless shite getting radio airplay and plugged constantly because of who they are. Look at KSI for example

[Matt42]

10 hours ago, DeanoL said:

It's not a meritocracy. Your face just has to fit. Sheeran didn't have a leg up in terms of connections as far as I know, but there's 100 acoustic singer songwriter types as good as or better than him, working as hard as him.

But he was a fit for the label, they push him, megastardom happens. 

He deffo deffo did. It was exposed as a lie that he was busking. He got discovered quite early on and I think he comes from a wealthy background. 

[Matt42]

1 hour ago, Hugh Jass II said:

Having a career in music is not the same as getting a job at via interview is it?

I haven’t denied that connections get feet in doors and people signed to labels. But my point is that after the initial leg up they’re on their own and at the mercy of the general public. All the money and connections in the world aren’t going to help them if they’re not actually any good.

But I’d also argue that you need a very good label / agent to sustain a level of success. Some artists make it big, lose industry support, but continue to put out good tunes and it doesn’t go anywhere. This is because they’ve lost support of the industry folk.

I don’t think it’s completely black and white, and I agree that there is a degree of meritocracy… but I wouldn’t count out that having very good management can make things much much easier.

Hey, you can be given a sub slot at R&L despite only having one moderately successful album in the United States.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Matt42

[topmarksbri]

2 hours ago, nikkic said:

This is the thing people who are beating Fred with the middle class stick seem to forget. 

You just don’t get to the skill level he has without hours and hours of practice, hard work and dedication. 

There will be countless examples of youngsters who have more money and more industry connections, yet go no where. 

Such a straw man, no one’s saying he’s not talented and hasn’t worked hard - just that he got opportunities others don’t because of his wealth. 

 

9 hours ago, mike46 said:

I love this website. The only reason Fred has sold out massive venues across the globe in seconds and the only reason none of us have is because Fred’s Eno’s neighbour 😂

 

Never change efests you wonderful people. 

Literally no one’s said that. Again you’re straw manning.

[Matt42]

6 minutes ago, topmarksbri said:

Such a straw man, no one’s saying he’s not talented and hasn’t worked hard - just that he got opportunities others don’t because of his wealth. 

I completely agree - but I think the real point with Fred is that he’s being given a massive industry leg up (way more than his contemporaries before him). He’s very much the IT guy at the moment and the industry isn’t shy to hide it.

[Havors]

1 hour ago, anditmakesmesmile said:

Only 8% of the country go to private school.  And yet the majority of those who succeed in the music industry were educated privately. Fred Again went Marlborough College, Florence Welch went to Alleyns, Jungle went to Latimer, Ed Sheeran went to Framlingham College (the prep school), etc etc etc.

My view, however, is that the problem doesn’t lie with the independent sector, but with the state sector. The state sector over the past 20 years has become so obsessed with league tables, exam results and Ofsted reports that most schools (not all) have a very narrow focus. The independent sector is less concerned with these aspects and gives young people the opportunity to fail at things. And to eventually find out what they might be interested in and good at. The opportunity for young people to learn that it’s OK to get things wrong, to fail first, and move on is such an invaluable lesson.  Particularly in the creative arts. 

And who made the league tables and targets to make them obsessed and forget about actually educating? Ill give you a clue... a lot of them went to private schools. 

[DeanoL]

3 hours ago, nikkic said:

There will be countless examples of youngsters who have more money and more industry connections, yet go no where. 

Buy there will also be countless examples of youngsters who have put in all the time and effort and are really good, but still get nowhere.

2 hours ago, Hugh Jass II said:

Having a career in music is not the same as getting a job at via interview is it?

Well no, that's my point. At interview mostly companies hire the most qualified people. 

With a music career it's a matter of being good enough and getting noticed by someone who can make stuff happen. You need to have a degree of talent but beyond that, it's just getting noticed. Some people have an advantage with that. You need both, but honestly, go see local musicians. You'll see 100s who are just as good as those you see in the charts these days. The record companies just pick one and make them a star.

(And it turns out, if you pick people well off that have some family experience with the industry, they're less likely to quibble over conditions and pay- if they're already rich, they will care more about being famous than what percentage they get)

56 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

He deffo deffo did. It was exposed as a lie that he was busking. He got discovered quite early on and I think he comes from a wealthy background. 

Fair enough, I only knew he did the toilet circuit from Jim Bob's book where he talks about him being the local support on one of his gigs but no idea how long he did that.

[Mich1268]

Anyway, is he looking like he will be there? My son got very excited when I mentioned it. It would also be nice to have a Christmas announcement. 

[gfa]

1 hour ago, anditmakesmesmile said:

Only 8% of the country go to private school.  And yet the majority of those who succeed in the music industry were educated privately. Fred Again went Marlborough College, Florence Welch went to Alleyns, Jungle went to Latimer, Ed Sheeran went to Framlingham College (the prep school), etc etc etc.

My view, however, is that the problem doesn’t lie with the independent sector, but with the state sector. The state sector over the past 20 years has become so obsessed with league tables, exam results and Ofsted reports that most schools (not all) have a very narrow focus. The independent sector is less concerned with these aspects and gives young people the opportunity to fail at things. And to eventually find out what they might be interested in and good at. The opportunity for young people to learn that it’s OK to get things wrong, to fail first, and move on is such an invaluable lesson.  Particularly in the creative arts. 

Parents are obsessed with league tables and schools are forced to comply to compete

6 minutes ago, Mich1268 said:

Anyway, is he looking like he will be there? My son got very excited when I mentioned it. It would also be nice to have a Christmas announcement. 

If thats Fred - then yeah, very likely. He will come with the post though

scenes on here if the next fred again song sampled paris hilton

[nikkic]

19 minutes ago, Mich1268 said:

Anyway, is he looking like he will be there? My son got very excited when I mentioned it. It would also be nice to have a Christmas announcement. 

Would be a big shock if he’s not there. 

[GrumpyRaver]

I keep coming here expecting some headliners chat… more fool me, clearly.

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, GrumpyRaver said:

I keep coming here expecting some headliners chat… more fool me, clearly.

Just the lull before it arrives. It’s fairly standard to get some downtime … especially since there seems to be an air of inevitability at the moment … I’m hoping for a spanner to get thrown in to liven things up … 

[Hugh Jass II]

12 minutes ago, GrumpyRaver said:

I keep coming here expecting some headliners chat… more fool me, clearly.

Are you new here?