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Greta Thunberg


Matt42

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1 hour ago, Pinhead said:

People will only change when the dying begins...

 

56 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

We're past that point fella.

 

We’re definitely past that point already. 

And we’re not changing anywhere near fast enough. 

News like this just makes you realise we are fucked: 

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/beijing-daxing-international-airport-opens-world-largest-china-a9120306.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1569437416

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I have very little hope of us getting out of this without major problems. The changes that need to be made to meet the targets we've set just aren't being made anywhere near fast enough, and those targets are pitiful anyway. 

I get the feeling that calamity is all part of someone's plan, a similar principle to driving the UK towards a no deal Brexit, only on a much bigger scale with much higher stakes, with the wealthiest best placed to pick up any pieces and reshape whats left to their greater benefit. 

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I have hope that technological advances in the coming years will save us. These are just a couple I've read in the last year or so. Obv, there's a lot more to be done, but I have faith in people to do the right thing in the end.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/01/tech-innovations-save-us-from-climate-change/

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-43783631

 

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1 hour ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

I have hope that technological advances in the coming years will save us. These are just a couple I've read in the last year or so. Obv, there's a lot more to be done, but I have faith in people to do the right thing in the end.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/01/tech-innovations-save-us-from-climate-change/

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-43783631

 

Keep the faith

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3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

that argument is precisely why we won't be saved.

it comes out as "I don't have to do anything, others will come up with solutions and I don't have to change". 

:( 

Well, I don't own a car and cycle everywhere or at worst take the tram/bus, I eat meat only twice a week, I recycle plastic, paper and dispose of bio-waste in the bio bin, I send glass into the glass bins down the road, I travel by air seldom, and I'm an English language teacher, so I don't know what else I could do, apart from call out people for having a positive outlook on it. I suppose self-flagellation is all the rage, but what else should I do? Drop everything and go study food chemistry or bio-chemistry and invent a new world-saving invention? Good grief. 

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3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

that argument is precisely why we won't be saved.

it comes out as "I don't have to do anything, others will come up with solutions and I don't have to change". 

:( 

May I ask, what exactly you are doing to save the world? Aside from living a relatively modest lifestyle I assume and being a negative Nancy about it.

Edited by MEGATRONICMEATWAGON
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59 minutes ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

Well, I don't own a car and cycle everywhere or at worst take the tram/bus, I eat meat only twice a week, I recycle plastic, paper and dispose of bio-waste in the bio bin, I send glass into the glass bins down the road, I travel by air seldom, and I'm an English language teacher, so I don't know what else I could do, apart from call out people for having a positive outlook on it. I suppose self-flagellation is all the rage, but what else should I do? Drop everything and go study food chemistry or bio-chemistry and invent a new world-saving invention? Good grief. 

sorry, that wasn't aimed as at attack at you, and neither is what follows. We need to be able to talk about this stuff without people getting defensive. :) 

But as an example, your list still includes "travel by air", which is precisely the sort of thing which isn't sustainable at current levels even before the large chunks of China and India and elsewhere who haven't yet started mass travel get on board.

I completely understand why people are reluctant to give up air travel, and why they cling to the hope that technology will let them continue (as they do for other things too) - but that ultimately becomes an excuse to not change right now when we need to change now.

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1 hour ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

May I ask, what exactly you are doing to save the world? Aside from living a relatively modest lifestyle I assume and being a negative Nancy about it.

I'm a long way from perfect myself.

I was pointing out that message was "we don't have to change what we do because technology will save us".

And it becomes the excuse for society not to make the changes it needs to.

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I really worry for Greta's mental health in the future, it's a ridiculous burden for a 16 year old to bear. She's being abused in some quarters from those who oppose her views and arguably being exploited by some of those who support her. I hope her parents, guardians or advisors are controlling her exposure, unfortunately history has shown us that being exposed to such pressure in the public eye often has a hugely detrimental effect on a person's wellbeing, especially at such a young age.

She's an incredible young woman, an example to us all but I can't help but be concerned about her.

If being ecological was profitable we wouldn't be in this state.

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1 hour ago, Supernintendo Chalmers said:

I really worry for Greta's mental health in the future, it's a ridiculous burden for a 16 year old to bear. She's being abused in some quarters from those who oppose her views and arguably being exploited by some of those who support her. I hope her parents, guardians or advisors are controlling her exposure, unfortunately history has shown us that being exposed to such pressure in the public eye often has a hugely detrimental effect on a person's wellbeing, especially at such a young age.

She's an incredible young woman, an example to us all but I can't help but be concerned about her.

If being ecological was profitable we wouldn't be in this state.

That's the thing, anything can be profitable if the will is there... 

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3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

sorry, that wasn't aimed as at attack at you, and neither is what follows. We need to be able to talk about this stuff without people getting defensive. :) 

But as an example, your list still includes "travel by air", which is precisely the sort of thing which isn't sustainable at current levels even before the large chunks of China and India and elsewhere who haven't yet started mass travel get on board.

I completely understand why people are reluctant to give up air travel, and why they cling to the hope that technology will let them continue (as they do for other things too) - but that ultimately becomes an excuse to not change right now when we need to change now.

It's alright, perhaps I felt unduly attacked for what I thought was just a simple "let's stay positive and focused" viewpoint, I'm not one of these types who thinks the world is going to end in 12 years, or thinks we're without a doubt doomed. There's a lot to do, I just don't know how well we can go about doing it other than acting responsibly and non-greedily.

It's the travelling by air bit which a lot of people have already mentioned in these threads about bands flying all over the world for their fans. The festival is without a doubt in the positive when it comes to its carbon footprint, probably massively so, as others have mentioned. China's new starfish airport in Beijing looks incredible (from an architecture point of view), but if you speak about change, what should we do? Cancel Glasto? Only hire local bands or bands who are in the country at the time? All the festivals on this website are flying DJs/bands/performers and crew in, probably quite a few punters as well - there's probably a lot who fly from the UK to Sziget, Rosklide, Burning Man etc too - but I've yet to hear any serious suggestions that we should all just stay at home instead... I don't know what the solution is, but I just thought there is always a silver lining to every cloud, those links were just meant to be that :D

Edited by MEGATRONICMEATWAGON
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2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

I'm a long way from perfect myself.

I was pointing out that message was "we don't have to change what we do because technology will save us".

And it becomes the excuse for society not to make the changes it needs to.

Okay, I didn't think my message said that, I just wanted to stay positive and focused, instead of all the "world is ending" hyperbole I've read, but I definitely don't think we shouldn't do anything. Saying that "I hope technology saves us" isn't the same as "I don't have to change myself because tech will save us" :D

Recycling, thinking about walking/public transport/cycling is important, as well as buying a small, more efficient car, than a SUV for one person if driving is an absolute must. If anything, I think the message shouldn't just be about conversation, but that we just shouldn't be so damn greedy/selfish. Houses with empty rooms, heating on all winter when you're sitting in a t-shirt and shorts instead of a jumper and joggers, driving at 90 mph with one person in the car...

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Just now, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

It's the travelling by air bit which a lot of people have already mentioned in these threads about bands flying all over the world for their fans.

this is a far better thing than fans flying all over the world for their bands. :P 

I don't doubt that some will continue to fly and be able to (against other factors in the world) justify that travel - and bands flying might be one of them. Whether or not bands get a free pass is to be decided when humanity finally gets around to having the conversations we need to have.

It's certainly the case that some flying for the benefit of humanity is likely to remain, and that some flying for business purposes is part of that.
(I'm not suggesting all business flying would class as 'for the benefit of humanity', to be clear).

It's the more frivolous flying we need to very definitely be cutting out - for pleasure. Put very simply, that just can't be justified any longer.

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3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

It's the more frivolous flying we need to very definitely be cutting out - for pleasure. Put very simply, that just can't be justified any longer.

I know, but how can we do it? That's the issue. If I was only allowed one return flight per year (or max 2000 km round-trip), I'd have to seriously consider ditching seeing family and friends for a flight to Bristol for Glasto... oh the dilemma...?

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Just now, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

Saying that "I hope technology saves us" isn't the same as "I don't have to change myself because tech will save us"

I agree, they say different things.

But it's still the case that "technology will save us" gets used in the big picture as an excuse to do nothing now. "The technology will be along soon, and then we'll be able to address things".

It's action that'll make an improvement, not no-action and keeping our fingers crossed for what might  - or might not - happen in the future with technology.

And technology can never really address the impact of mass consumerism on the environment. We need to get our heads round the fact that we can't keep on having 'stuff' of any shape and size, not just single use plastics.

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