Kneecap

[xxialac]

5 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

Yes context and nuance. As humans we deal with this every day. The legal process should always consider context and nuance. 
 

Seems like we are starting this debate all over. Kneecap could for example support the aims of Hamas but not some of the nastier stuff. That’s my own position. I don’t believe they should be a proscribed organisation if other groups including the IDF aren’t.
 

Growing up I understood why some people joined and supported the actions IRA. This view still exists in NI and will continue to exist among people who were harmed by the British armed forces. Context and nuance. 

 

If as a spurs fan say up spurs that doesn’t mean I support everyone at their club. I hate the owners for example. Context and nuance again.

Yes!!

 

After Stephen Redgrave won Olympic Gold he said “Anybody who sees me in a boat has my permission to shoot me.” I don't think he was inciting violence against himself...

 

[Watergirl]

"This is about shutting up anyone who refuses to accept that Zionists must be facilitated in doing whatever they want to the indigenous people of Palestine and then cry foul when a random teenager retaliates by tossing a stone at them.

I hope Kneecap stands firm and that everybody who believes in justice and the integrity of art stands with them.

If Glastonbury cancels Kneecap other artists should pull out of the gig."

 

From Hot Press, main Irish music mag:

https://www.hotpress.com/opinion/i-hope-kneecap-stand-firm-23083805

 

Edited May 2, 2025 by Watergirl

[pryce]

Again I can't believe I'm arguing on the side of this as it makes me sick 

 

But if shouting kill your MP or up Hamas isn't supposed to be taken at face value , then should be the people arrested and charged for saying kill illegal immigrants..because surely they would argue we didn't mean it like that we just hate the amount that they are funded etc.

 

Same with support and normalising of Hamas and it's methods and saying the Israelis had it coming ..then what's the next step ..being ok with Isis and their methods ..because they would see themselves as freedom fighters against western oppression.

[TheDayman]

8 minutes ago, pryce said:

Again I can't believe I'm arguing on the side of this as it makes me sick 

 

But if shouting kill your MP or up Hamas isn't supposed to be taken at face value , then should be the people arrested and charged for saying kill illegal immigrants..because surely they would argue we didn't mean it like that we just hate the amount that they are funded etc.

 

Same with support and normalising of Hamas and it's methods and saying the Israelis had it coming ..then what's the next step ..being ok with Isis and their methods ..because they would see themselves as freedom fighters against western oppression.

As it keeps on being repeated… it’s about nuance and context.

 

Let me ask a different question, are you more outraged by Kneecaps words or by the sale of military arms from Britain to Israel which are, right now, killing children in Gaza?

 

Or rather, are you more outraged by Kneecaps words than the lack of words from the British government over the current Israeli blockade of aid to Gaza which is causing a humanitarian disaster to unfold, live, for us all to see?

[Colorblindjames]

12 minutes ago, pryce said:

Again I can't believe I'm arguing on the side of this as it makes me sick 

 

But if shouting kill your MP or up Hamas isn't supposed to be taken at face value , then should be the people arrested and charged for saying kill illegal immigrants..because surely they would argue we didn't mean it like that we just hate the amount that they are funded etc.

 

Same with support and normalising of Hamas and it's methods and saying the Israelis had it coming ..then what's the next step ..being ok with Isis and their methods ..because they would see themselves as freedom fighters against western oppression.

Again you have to consider the context. If those shouting kill all immigrants are part of a far right group or have a history of violence then yes we have an issue. It’s likely they did mean it. 
 

If it was some old boy drunk and ranting in a pub with no previous history then no action is necessary.

 

 

[Skip997]

2 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

As it keeps on being repeated… it’s about nuance and context.

 

Let me ask a different question, are you more outraged by Kneecaps words or by the sale of military arms from Britain to Israel which are, right now, killing children in Gaza?

 

Or rather, are you more outraged by Kneecaps words than the lack of words from the British government over the current Israeli blockade of aid to Gaza which is causing a humanitarian disaster to unfold, live, for us all to see?

Outrage over Kneecap is taking the easy and cowardly route. 

[thatTFBguy]

Kneecap movie was pretty good. 

[CaledonianGonzo]

5 minutes ago, thatTFBguy said:

Kneecap movie was pretty good. 

 

Yet sadly it depicted them doing many crimes.  So much for Glastonbury being the law and order festival that should set a good example to the youth.

[ceegee]

"I want to hurt him; I want to physically hurt this man. He is the most arrogant, ugly f**k. I want to hurt him. Oh my God, he is revolting; so ugly, inside and out." 

- chief ringleader of the Cancel Kneecap parade, Sharon Osbourne, discussing Jeremy Corbyn on the BBC.

 

It seems Shazza may not be quite as concerned about threats of violence against politicians as she claims.

 

 

[Physical_graffiti]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DJJs9wUSryq/

 

this is good and basically answers every question on this thread 

[K2SO]

2 hours ago, TheDayman said:

As it keeps on being repeated… it’s about nuance and context.

 

Let me ask a different question, are you more outraged by Kneecaps words or by the sale of military arms from Britain to Israel which are, right now, killing children in Gaza?

 

Or rather, are you more outraged by Kneecaps words than the lack of words from the British government over the current Israeli blockade of aid to Gaza which is causing a humanitarian disaster to unfold, live, for us all to see?

 

I didn't really want to get into the conversation here, but I think nuance and context is the sticking point here - Both sides of this conversation are incredibly valid points.

 

Kneecap are definitely in the wrong in terms of using the phrases "Up Hamas", "Up Hezbollah" and "Kill your local MP".

 

However, the points coming from Kneecap's side are valid - Why are MPs and the media holding the band to a standard that they won't hold our government to? We should not be sitting by in silence watching a literal genocide happening in Palestine.

 

That said, I think we need the pro-Palestine, anti-Israel side of the conversation to be careful of the language we use, because of the exact examples we're seeing with Kneecap now. The media are already portraying the pro-Palestine voices as anti-semitic. They will relish any opportunity they get to make this side of the conversation look bad, and divert attention away from the real conversation.

 

TL;DR - IMO, Kneecap's pro-Palestine sentiment is correct, but their language is wrong.

[Levitz]

19 minutes ago, K2SO said:

 

I didn't really want to get into the conversation here, but I think nuance and context is the sticking point here - Both sides of this conversation are incredibly valid points.

 

Kneecap are definitely in the wrong in terms of using the phrases "Up Hamas", "Up Hezbollah" and "Kill your local MP".

 

However, the points coming from Kneecap's side are valid - Why are MPs and the media holding the band to a standard that they won't hold our government to? We should not be sitting by in silence watching a literal genocide happening in Palestine.

 

That said, I think we need the pro-Palestine, anti-Israel side of the conversation to be careful of the language we use, because of the exact examples we're seeing with Kneecap now. The media are already portraying the pro-Palestine voices as anti-semitic. They will relish any opportunity they get to make this side of the conversation look bad, and divert attention away from the real conversation.

 

TL;DR - IMO, Kneecap's pro-Palestine sentiment is correct, but their language is wrong.

 

Israel drone striked a civilian flotilla trying to take aid to Gaza last night, in international waters off Malta. They are conducting genocide in Gaza, after decades of oppression (and regular arbitrary killing and detention) of Palestinians.  I find it difficult to care about their offence to language tbqh when see daily pictures of shredded children. 

 

[Olshansky]

3 minutes ago, Levitz said:

 

Israel drone striked a civilian flotilla trying to take aid to Gaza last night, in international waters off Malta. They are conducting genocide in Gaza, after decades of oppression (and regular arbitrary killing and detention) of Palestinians.  I find it difficult to care about their offence to language tbqh when see daily pictures of shredded children. 

 

 

Fully agree.  I don't care that MPs and Senators and Congresspeople are scared.  They should be scared for allowing this to happen. 

[clarkete]

Discussing semantics of things said either one or two years ago whilst tens of thousands of women and kids are murdered with barely a comment.

 

Mental. 

[K2SO]

14 minutes ago, Levitz said:

 

Israel drone striked a civilian flotilla trying to take aid to Gaza last night, in international waters off Malta. They are conducting genocide in Gaza, after decades of oppression (and regular arbitrary killing and detention) of Palestinians.  I find it difficult to care about their offence to language tbqh when see daily pictures of shredded children. 

 

 

This is sort of my point though - Exactly what you've said there is the pressing issue. The media are absolutely delighted to bury that under news of Kneecap saying something inflammatory. It's beneficial for the pro-Palestine side of the argument to be more careful with our language to minimise the amount of ammunition the media and the complacent MPs have.

[Olshansky]

13 minutes ago, K2SO said:

 

This is sort of my point though - Exactly what you've said there is the pressing issue. The media are absolutely delighted to bury that under news of Kneecap saying something inflammatory. It's beneficial for the pro-Palestine side of the argument to be more careful with our language to minimise the amount of ammunition the media and the complacent MPs have.

 

I hear what you're saying.  But a part of me thinks that we don't live in that world anymore.  
Here in America, Texas is trying to pass a bill that make sharing a political meme punishable by up to a year in jail. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/outrage-erupts-as-texas-house-passes-bill-that-criminalizes-political-memes/ar-AA1DWo4I 

I highly doubt it will become law, but my point is, fascism isn't coming, it's here.  We are beyond the point where playing nice gets you anywhere.  

[Skip997]

7 minutes ago, Olshansky said:

 

I highly doubt it will become law, but my point is, fascism isn't coming, it's here.  We are beyond the point where playing nice gets you anywhere.  

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2017/01/31/the-12-early-warning-signs-of-fascism/

[Skip997]

People can prattle on as much as they like having circular discussions about Kneecap, but it’s largely a distraction. A storm in a thimble. 
 

In the UK, the USA and parts of Europe were at the beginning of fascism. I suggest people start looking at what’s really happening and decide which side they’re on. 

[efcfanwirral]

8 hours ago, pryce said:

Again I can't believe I'm arguing on the side of this as it makes me sick 

 

But if shouting kill your MP or up Hamas isn't supposed to be taken at face value , then should be the people arrested and charged for saying kill illegal immigrants..because surely they would argue we didn't mean it like that we just hate the amount that they are funded etc.

 

Same with support and normalising of Hamas and it's methods and saying the Israelis had it coming ..then what's the next step ..being ok with Isis and their methods ..because they would see themselves as freedom fighters against western oppression.

Propaganda and perspective means nobody and everybody is right 

[CaledonianGonzo]

12 hours ago, K2SO said:

 

This is sort of my point though - Exactly what you've said there is the pressing issue. The media are absolutely delighted to bury that under news of Kneecap saying something inflammatory. It's beneficial for the pro-Palestine side of the argument to be more careful with our language to minimise the amount of ammunition the media and the complacent MPs have.

 

Yeah, I think that's fair.  It behooves us to be precise in a way that those arguing the pro-genocide case don't really have to worry about, as we've seen in this thread.

 

As such, I do think Kneecap were daft, but its a minor faux pas and, as others have repeatedly said, shouldn't be the topic, except in this thread.

 

Thoughtful statement from Billy Bragg

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/DJKGfdzR07d/?img_index=4&igsh=OHAxcDJtZDAzYWh2

 

[CaledonianGonzo]

7 hours ago, efcfanwirral said:

Propaganda and perspective means nobody and everybody is right 

 

You dont think there's a right and wrong side when discussing a genocide?

 

Wow.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2025 by CaledonianGonzo

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

I wish people would learn what the word genocide means. 

 

Hamas wants to kill all Jews and remove them from the area = this is intent for genocide.

 

Israel wants to remove Hamas = not genocide, because Hamas is just a political movement.

 

Kneecap have been total fools in their thirst for trying to be relevant or antiestabilishment. Siding with terrorist groups shouldn't be described as artistic and calling for the death of Tory MPs should be condemned, not held up as a bastion of free speech. Free speech ends when there's a call to arms.

 

No one would want a White Power band rocking up and singing in support of the KKK and/or telling a crowd to kill "all hippies/blacks/democrats".

 

And people on here saying, "It was just a joke, just a silly out of context joke"... well, that's just the Jeremy Clarkson excuse. Inexcusable.

 

Edited May 3, 2025 by MEGATRONICMEATWAGON

[philipsteak]

Why the f**k is Sharon Osbourne's opinion considered so f**king central to this?

Very odd.

[Suprefan]

4 minutes ago, philipsteak said:

Why the f**k is Sharon Osbourne's opinion considered so f**king central to this?

Very odd.

 

Cause she has nothing else going on.

 

 

So everyones gonna pile onto Radiohead next right.

[Colorblindjames]

40 minutes ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

I wish people would learn what the word genocide means. 

 

Hamas wants to kill all Jews and remove them from the area = this is intent for genocide.

 

Israel wants to remove Hamas = not genocide, because Hamas is just a political movement.

 

Kneecap have been total fools in their thirst for trying to be relevant or antiestabilishment. Siding with terrorist groups shouldn't be described as artistic and calling for the death of Tory MPs should be condemned, not held up as a bastion of free speech. Free speech ends when there's a call to arms.

 

No one would want a White Power band rocking up and singing in support of the KKK and/or telling a crowd to kill "all hippies/blacks/democrats".

 

And people on here saying, "It was just a joke, just a silly out of context joke"... well, that's just the Jeremy Clarkson excuse. Inexcusable.

 

Sorry but this is laughable. 
 

israel by their own words and actions are carrying out a genocide. The evidence is plain to see.