Kneecap

[TiZuff]

12 hours ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

I wish people would learn what the word genocide means. 

 

Hamas wants to kill all Jews and remove them from the area = this is intent for genocide.

 

Israel wants to remove Hamas = not genocide, because Hamas is just a political movement.

 

Kneecap have been total fools in their thirst for trying to be relevant or antiestabilishment. Siding with terrorist groups shouldn't be described as artistic and calling for the death of Tory MPs should be condemned, not held up as a bastion of free speech. Free speech ends when there's a call to arms.

 

No one would want a White Power band rocking up and singing in support of the KKK and/or telling a crowd to kill "all hippies/blacks/democrats".

 

And people on here saying, "It was just a joke, just a silly out of context joke"... well, that's just the Jeremy Clarkson excuse. Inexcusable.

 

 

ahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. is this a troll post or something? cant be real surely?!

 

im impressed if you actually believe this. actually hillarious. 

[steviewevie]

10 minutes ago, Levitz said:

Sinwar died fighting, not far from an IDF tank post. The Israelis even released a video. 

Ok, apart from Sinwar who is a total hero mandela type...spotted sitting in a chair throwing something at a drone.

[clarkete]

1 hour ago, JoshM87 said:

it’s not really the point though.

 

People as individuals have a responsibility to not share messages which endanger others. Saying ‘kill your local MP’ is an invitation for some lunatic to go and do it, which actually happened relatively recently.

 

 

 

 

It's kinda the point that over 30 pages in you wanted to repeat a view that many already made regarding something the band said in 2023, they apologised for and many other folks think is a distraction from the slaughter and starvation in gaza which they've publicised far more times and far more recently. 

[SouthbanKen]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

I don't know about Hamas being genocidal...everyone throws this word around now that it is becoming meaningless. But they are definitely c**ts. They knew who was in the Israeli government when they went in and killed and took ravers and familes, they knew that the attack would provoke a mad reaction from a government full of extremists...I guess they hoped it would trigger a bigger reaction from Iran proxies etc which has definitely backfired and now Iran looks a lot weaker and I expect pretty f**ked off with Hamas, and maybe also hoping there would be a big anti Israel global reaction which there definitely has been so well done I guess...but as the carnage and war crimes escalated and the people of Gaza and their homes and lives have got destroyed, they just hid down in their tunnels with and waited so they could make a deal to get some Palestinian prisoners released or whatever. So, f**k the Israeli government, and at same time f**k Hamas. A two state solution could have been possible under different governments and regimes and international pressure and help....but they've f**ked it, and I really don't know where it's going to end up. Any possible solution is not going to come from Kneecap who are just milking it, it will come from what deals US does with Saudi, Israel and Iran.

One of the reasons that I have seen put forward as being the catalyst for the Hamas attack on 7 October was Saudi being on the verge of signing a new trade deal with Israel. The gulf and other Arab states failure to support Palestine is pretty shameful. 

[steviewevie]

35 minutes ago, SouthbanKen said:

One of the reasons that I have seen put forward as being the catalyst for the Hamas attack on 7 October was Saudi being on the verge of signing a new trade deal with Israel. The gulf and other Arab states failure to support Palestine is pretty shameful. 

Well yeah...and they definitely succeeded with that, so well done Hamas.

But Trump might want to get some deal going between Saudi Arabia and Israel as part of his Abraham Accords thing...but Saudi might want certain guarantees about Palestinian statehood.

Overall though I don't think Hamas has many friends amongst Arab states.

[Colorblindjames]

4 hours ago, JoshM87 said:

As someone who vehemently dislikes the Conservative Party it would take a fair bit to trigger me especially given I’ve been in countless Liverpool away ends singing various songs about Thatcher.

 

That said, telling people to kill your MP is f**king stupid, especially given the fact that someone literally did just that not that long ago. Not surprising that they’re getting sh*t for it and a shame as it undermines the very legitimate points which they otherwise make.

What if those MPs are killing children? Would it still be f-in stupid?

[Colorblindjames]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

I don't know about Hamas being genocidal...everyone throws this word around now that it is becoming meaningless. But they are definitely c**ts. They knew who was in the Israeli government when they went in and killed and took ravers and familes, they knew that the attack would provoke a mad reaction from a government full of extremists...I guess they hoped it would trigger a bigger reaction from Iran proxies etc which has definitely backfired and now Iran looks a lot weaker and I expect pretty f**ked off with Hamas, and maybe also hoping there would be a big anti Israel global reaction which there definitely has been so well done I guess...but as the carnage and war crimes escalated and the people of Gaza and their homes and lives have got destroyed, they just hid down in their tunnels with and waited so they could make a deal to get some Palestinian prisoners released or whatever. So, f**k the Israeli government, and at same time f**k Hamas. A two state solution could have been possible under different governments and regimes and international pressure and help....but they've f**ked it, and I really don't know where it's going to end up. Any possible solution is not going to come from Kneecap who are just milking it, it will come from what deals US does with Saudi, Israel and Iran.

Classic centrist nonsense and another attempt to both sides a genocide. 

[steviewevie]

8 hours ago, Colorblindjames said:

Classic centrist nonsense and another attempt to both sides a genocide. 

That's me, classic centrist.

If there's ever going to be a solution it is going to have to take compromises from both sides, which is why there probably won't be because only one side is right or wrong depending on what side you're on.

[Pilgrim S]

8 hours ago, Colorblindjames said:

Classic centrist nonsense and another attempt to both sides a genocide. 

I disagree. I think both communities have been let down by their politicians. I think Israel should stop and support for them should be withdrawn but I'm not handing out any high fives to Hamas. 

Oh and Kneecap should be allowed to play as should Jonny Greenwood. Kneecap said something stupid and apologised, more importantly they encourage debate. They're not Billy Bragg, so expect them to put their foot in it again at some point.

[Colorblindjames]

22 hours ago, danmarks said:

Both sides do bad things 1) is an oversimplification of what I was trying to say and 2) was about all conflicts nor just this one. 

Also 3)  one side is exterminating the other does not equate to being ok killing 1200 at a festival and taking hostages. You can't start quoting numbers and say im not as bad as you as I've killed less.

Killing is killing. 

Thanks for answering and yes I've already read the charter and also found other bits online that supposedly are also the charter about the total extermination of Israel. 

Not sure why I feel I need to defend myself but sometimes things can come over as sanctimonious - as always a real conversation will have all sorts if nuance around it but screens don't.

Back on topic. Should kneecap be cancelled. Of course not .

Should people be accountable for what they say.

Yes

What accountability did you have in mind?

 

you know cos Jess Phillips wasn’t held accountable for her stab Corbyn in the front remark. Frank Hester wasn’t held accountable for his comments about Diane Abbott. The soldiers weren’t held accountable for the Corbyn target practice. 

[Crazyfool01]

just had a listen to this ... posted in our watts app chat .... really good and thought provoking listen whatever opinion you hold . https://open.spotify.com/episode/45XeS99vo9tM1zN605gdY1?si=96ep83bzSBq-Uid3jGIdCA&nd=1&dlsi=c25e323a889d4b33

 

 

Edited May 4, 2025 by Crazyfool01

[Alvoram]

2 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

just had a listen to this ... posted in our watts app chat .... really good and thought provoking listen whatever opinion you hold .

 

may have already been posted so apologies if it has 

 

Nothing is showing? 

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Alvoram said:

Nothing is showing? 

just edited .... wouldnt embed for some reason 

[Alvoram]

If Glastonbury were to pull Kneecap, would it change your view of the festival?

For me personally, I can't see it happening. If it were to happen, it would mark the death of everything I thought Glastonbury stood for, so it would massively change my view of the festival. 

Whichever side you take, you surely recognise the right to protest, and the important links between Glastonbury and activism? 

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Alvoram said:

If Glastonbury were to pull Kneecap, would it change your view of the festival?

For me personally, I can't see it happening. If it were to happen, it would mark the death of everything I thought Glastonbury stood for, so it would massively change my view of the festival. 

Whichever side you take, you surely recognise the right to protest, and the important links between Glastonbury and activism? 

id agree with that .... the fact weve had nothing yet makes me optimistic that they are waiting for the heat to die down a little and they will remain on the bill 

[Levitz]

3 minutes ago, Alvoram said:

If Glastonbury were to pull Kneecap, would it change your view of the festival?

For me personally, I can't see it happening. If it were to happen, it would mark the death of everything I thought Glastonbury stood for, so it would massively change my view of the festival. 

Whichever side you take, you surely recognise the right to protest, and the important links between Glastonbury and activism? 

They pulled the Corbyn film the other year didn't they?

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, Alvoram said:

If Glastonbury were to pull Kneecap, would it change your view of the festival?

For me personally, I can't see it happening. If it were to happen, it would mark the death of everything I thought Glastonbury stood for, so it would massively change my view of the festival. 

Whichever side you take, you surely recognise the right to protest, and the important links between Glastonbury and activism? 

Depends what the protest is, but unsurprisingly Kneecap's opinion will probably align with many at Glastonbury and their organisers .

Just hope they book Radiohead or Nick Cave for balance, they could be in the classic centrist field 

[Levitz]

15 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Ok, apart from Sinwar who is a total hero mandela type...spotted sitting in a chair throwing something at a drone.

Facetious. He was injured and lost his hand at that point. The point is you are swallowing Israeli hasbara. He wasn't hiding in a tunnel he was out fighting with his people when he was killed. Inconvenient but true. Does that make him a good person, no. But it is a hell of a lot more involved than targeting children with drones from Tel Aviv. 

 

Hamas are a resistance movement, they aren't a standing army with bunker buster bombs and nukes, Palestine doesn't have a standing army, so they employ guerilla tactics as resistance movements do. They hide, attack the occupying force and then retreat to hiding. You don't have to like their tactics. You don't have to agree with them. You don't have to excuse their heinous acts against Israeli civilians. But unless you expected the French resistance to be out fighting in the streets engaging in hand to hand combat with the Nazis in occupied France, instead of keeping out of sight, you should understand their tactics a little better?

 

The only people responsible for the genocide being conducted in Gaza and the pogroms being conducted in the West Bank are the Israeli government and the western allies who arm them and back them without question. Through decades of oppression, ignoring  the plight of the Palestinians and ignoring international law, and trying to cut Palestinians out of their own future through the abraham accords. As our government is part of the problem we don't get to dictate how the Palestinians resist, I would also argue we don't get to make moral judgements but understand many wouldn't agree. 

[Alvoram]

26 minutes ago, Levitz said:

They pulled the Corbyn film the other year didn't they?

Yes they did. 😞 
 

19 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Depends what the protest is, but unsurprisingly Kneecap's opinion will probably align with many at Glastonbury and their organisers .

Just hope they book Radiohead or Nick Cave for balance, they could be in the classic centrist field 

It 'shouldn't' matter whether it aligns with the majority, as long as it has a reasonable amount of support, and people who care about the cause. The right to protest is extended to 'everyone' not just those we agree with. 

But as Levitz called out, that documentary was pulled and the reasons given included the fact that the festival was about "unity and not division." 

[steviewevie]

31 minutes ago, Alvoram said:

It 'shouldn't' matter whether it aligns with the majority, as long as it has a reasonable amount of support, and people who care about the cause. The right to protest is extended to 'everyone' not just those we agree with. 

But as Levitz called out, that documentary was pulled and the reasons given included the fact that the festival was about "unity and not division." 

Right. Because there are questions of antisemitism.

The right to protest does extend to everyone, but I assume if some band that were due to play started spouting far right hate speech about migrants or minorities or whatever they might get pulled?

(hoping Matty Healy does this).

Edited May 4, 2025 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

47 minutes ago, Levitz said:

Facetious. He was injured and lost his hand at that point. The point is you are swallowing Israeli hasbara. He wasn't hiding in a tunnel he was out fighting with his people when he was killed. Inconvenient but true. Does that make him a good person, no. But it is a hell of a lot more involved than targeting children with drones from Tel Aviv. 

 

Hamas are a resistance movement, they aren't a standing army with bunker buster bombs and nukes, Palestine doesn't have a standing army, so they employ guerilla tactics as resistance movements do. They hide, attack the occupying force and then retreat to hiding. You don't have to like their tactics. You don't have to agree with them. You don't have to excuse their heinous acts against Israeli civilians. But unless you expected the French resistance to be out fighting in the streets engaging in hand to hand combat with the Nazis in occupied France, instead of keeping out of sight, you should understand their tactics a little better?

 

The only people responsible for the genocide being conducted in Gaza and the pogroms being conducted in the West Bank are the Israeli government and the western allies who arm them and back them without question. Through decades of oppression, ignoring  the plight of the Palestinians and ignoring international law, and trying to cut Palestinians out of their own future through the abraham accords. As our government is part of the problem we don't get to dictate how the Palestinians resist, I would also argue we don't get to make moral judgements but understand many wouldn't agree. 

Yeah, they sound great, Up Hamas. 

But also, they went into Israel and killed a bunch of ravers and killed a bunch of families because of what, resistance? Or to provoke Israel to react in a crazy way and for things to escalate. So things were great in Gaza pre Oct 7th, but they did have some autonomy, they did have schools and universities and hospitals and a life, There were no settlers in Gaza. They could and did come into Israel to work. There was some mutual cooperation. There had been attempts many times to find a two state solution by US and other Arab countries, but there was always something blocking it, from both sides. Maybe there could have been something found in these Abraham Accords if countries like Saudi Arabia joined. Now, all that is dead. A two state solution is shot. The president of US is now saying the quiet part out loud about ethnic cleansing Gaza, and has emboldened Netanyahu even more. Those Oct 7th attacks have been an unmitigated disaster.

[TheDayman]

1 hour ago, Alvoram said:

If it were to happen, it would mark the death of everything I thought Glastonbury stood for, so it would massively change my view of the festival. 

Wholeheartedly agree with this.

[TheDayman]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

Depends what the protest is, but unsurprisingly Kneecap's opinion will probably align with many at Glastonbury and their organisers .

Just hope they book Radiohead or Nick Cave for balance, they could be in the classic centrist field 

They should book Sharon Osbourne…

[CaledonianGonzo]

 

Forgive the repetition, but I think this worth a watch on the specific content (or, more critically, the general lack of it) in Glastonbury's messaging on 'peace'

 

 

 

[steviewevie]

I know it's BBC and people will always find faults and bias etc, but I thought this was an excellent documentary about some of the politics and diplomacy over few decades leading up to Oct 7th. Has lots of people from all sides, including some from Hamas who since have been killed, and the whole thing is maddenly frustrating. One constant seems to be Netanyahu, always there or thereabouts and the biggest blocker to Palestinian statehood out of the lot, and he also seems to be disliked by everyone in various US administrations.

Israel and the Palestinians: The Road to 7th October - BBC iPlayer