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Hurt/Heal 2021 - Ultimate Headliners Edition!

Hugh Jass

By Hugh Jass,
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kalifire
kalifire

For anyone interested, I've created a 'bar chart race' graphic based on the scores at the end of each day from the 1st February when this started. It shows how each artist has progressed over time.

Gnomicide
Gnomicide
ShakeyCrash
ShakeyCrash

As a side from this I no longer have a horse to back in this race.  I was going to be all contrary and side against those that I feel have wronged me but then I had the following conversation with my

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northernringo Proficient

northernringo

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14 hours ago, Bryanrebe said:

Take the following with a grain of salt considering I just took points off the only female left in the game. I find it kind of obvious that the majority of the acts left are white and male. They make up the majority of the headliners over the past few years so it makes sense, right? But it also makes me sad. Chin up for the future!

Agree with this, thankfully it is a representation of GF headliners as you say as opposed to an unfair representation amongst voters here.

The original list had 46 artists, 4.5 of which were female (Taylor, Beyonce, Adele, Florence and then 0.5 for White Stripes - didn't include Arcade Fire).

So just under 10% of acts on the list were female and based on that, we got 1 female act in the top 10 (9th I think?) so pretty much what you'd expect.

For 'non-white' acts, we had 6 on the list (Jay-Z, Kanye, Beyonce, Stevie Wonder, Kendrick and Stormzy). So that's roughly 13% of acts who were not white. In the top 10, we have 2 of those acts so we actually do a bit better than you would expect in terms of looking at the numbers in isolation.

Hopefully over the next few generations of festivals we see much more diversity amongst headliners.

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mattiloy Mentor

mattiloy

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9 minutes ago, northernringo said:

Agree with this, thankfully it is a representation of GF headliners as you say as opposed to an unfair representation amongst voters here.

The original list had 46 artists, 4.5 of which were female (Taylor, Beyonce, Adele, Florence and then 0.5 for White Stripes - didn't include Arcade Fire).

So just under 10% of acts on the list were female and based on that, we got 1 female act in the top 10 (9th I think?) so pretty much what you'd expect.

For 'non-white' acts, we had 6 on the list (Jay-Z, Kanye, Beyonce, Stevie Wonder, Kendrick and Stormzy). So that's roughly 13% of acts who were not white. In the top 10, we have 2 of those acts so we actually do a bit better than you would expect in terms of looking at the numbers in isolation.

Hopefully over the next few generations of festivals we see much more diversity amongst headliners.

 

Its a complex issue. In defense of the festival, it has its roots in good old fashioned rock and roll and historically there were more girls with guitars than boys. And the industry has tended to promote soloists, maleable pop star types over rock chicks. See how all the above female acts other than meg white fit that profile.

So since there is some correlation between genre and the physical attributes of an act, I’m not a fan of positive discrimination generally but particularly if it means more pop because that aint my taste tbh. I’d love to see the festival take a lead in the industry and give girls with guitars a leg up - wolf alice are headliners in waiting for instance - phoebe bridgers could get there some day. Glastonbury can be a taste maker rather than following the industry.

Also I know i’m gonna get shit for this but in the interest of debate and out of curiosity, here goes - re: ethnicity: around 13% is also the % of the UK population in the last census was non-white. So what level is an appropriate level?

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kalifire Grand Master

kalifire

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35 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Also I know i’m gonna get shit for this but in the interest of debate and out of curiosity, here goes - re: ethnicity: around 13% is also the % of the UK population in the last census was non-white. So what level is an appropriate level?

I don't think that's unreasonable. It's definitely a thorny issue. I suppose a starting point would be to ensure that everyone is given equality of opportunity. That just doesn't exist now, and inequality transcends race and gender. If you happen to be born into certain socio-economic groups or a particular part of the country, your chances of achieving 'success' are automatically decimated.

It doesn't help that the ruling classes are so distanced from life as it's experienced by millions, and that 'relating' to those people is basically a self-serving marketing exercise designed to win support and achieve power and control, shortly before shitting on them yet again with broken promises and token efforts in investment and genuine chances to overcome circumstances.

Getting back to the point, that's why Glastonbury's embrace of grime and giving artists of traditionally non-white musical genres headline spotlights can be so meaningful and poignant. Stormzy was born a black kid on the estates in Croydon. He was just 25 years old and one album deep when he headlined the Pyramid, to loud miserable chatter from a certain minority of entitled white people. His set was a huge success on just about every level.

So I think they're doing what they can with artists who have reached that point in their career, and they're demonstrating what's possible; openly breaking glass ceilings to encourage and inspire others. I don't think you could ask much more, and I hope and expect that in the interests of diversity - not just of colour and gender - but of music itself, that we'll see greater inclusion in years to come.

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mattiloy Mentor

mattiloy

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3 hours ago, kalifire said:

I don't think that's unreasonable. It's definitely a thorny issue. I suppose a starting point would be to ensure that everyone is given equality of opportunity. That just doesn't exist now, and inequality transcends race and gender. If you happen to be born into certain socio-economic groups or a particular part of the country, your chances of achieving 'success' are automatically decimated.

It doesn't help that the ruling classes are so distanced from life as it's experienced by millions, and that 'relating' to those people is basically a self-serving marketing exercise designed to win support and achieve power and control, shortly before shitting on them yet again with broken promises and token efforts in investment and genuine chances to overcome circumstances.

Getting back to the point, that's why Glastonbury's embrace of grime and giving artists of traditionally non-white musical genres headline spotlights can be so meaningful and poignant. Stormzy was born a black kid on the estates in Croydon. He was just 25 years old and one album deep when he headlined the Pyramid, to loud miserable chatter from a certain minority of entitled white people. His set was a huge success on just about every level.

So I think they're doing what they can with artists who have reached that point in their career, and they're demonstrating what's possible; openly breaking glass ceilings to encourage and inspire others. I don't think you could ask much more, and I hope and expect that in the interests of diversity - not just of colour and gender - but of music itself, that we'll see greater inclusion in years to come.

 

Yeah sure, I dont disagree. Not saying Stormzy or Beyonce are not worthy or that they didn't put on a great show, I myself would sooner have them on the bill than at least 3 of the remaining acts. I'm also not saying that pop or rap acts should not be at the festival.

My point is simply that as a festival which has been centred on alternative, guitar based music, it is unsurprising that most of the headliners have been men, because in times gone by more men have played guitars than women, and unsurprising that most of the headliners have been white, because 90% of people in this country are white. So I just don't like the insinuation that it comes from a misogynistic or racist place, its just the selection bias upto this point in time.

Then to shoehorn a load of pop acts, or indeed rap acts, just to meet quotas, is not what I wanna see. At its heart glastonbury should have a red thread back to its hippy, rock n roll, folky, alternative, weirdo roots for me. I am happy for different genres to coexist at the festival but I'd like it to still have bands front and centre. I'd be delighted to see those bands with more female and black members, and I think there are many great female lead or minority ethnic led bands that could do it. 

I'd even argue that putting on female led bands as headliners is a bigger triumph because it goes further to challenge preconceptions both within the music industry and without in a way that I don't believe putting an established world famous female soloist as a headliner does.

For what its worth, I think they have generally got the balance about right in recent years. Just wanna head off at the pass any accusations of misogyny or racism and any attempts to change the musical makeup of the festival in the name of equality.

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CaledonianGonzo Grand Master

CaledonianGonzo

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7 hours ago, mattiloy said:

 

Its a complex issue. In defense of the festival, it has its roots in good old fashioned rock and roll

 

2 hours ago, mattiloy said:

My point is simply that as a festival which has been centred on alternative, guitar based music

This isn't true though. 

Rock's been dominant in some years more than others, but there's always been a broad spectrum of music. If you look at the top of the bill Iin the 1980s it runs the gamut - and for every Hawkwind there's been a Curtis Mayfield or a Fela Kuti.

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Hugh Jass Grand Master

Hugh Jass

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One of the things I love most about GF is the diversity of genres across the lineup, and whilst not always to my taste it can’t be anything other than a good thing that we’re seeing more pop and hip hop/rap acts at the very top. These are the acts that are popular at the moment and it’s great that the festival is acknowledging and showcasing them.

It’s not like there’s a steady stream of new bands with the chops to headline any time soon. If the festival just looks for bunches of white lads with guitars we’ll just end up with an endless parade of Coldplay/Muse/Arctic Monkeys until people lose interest.

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