When will this shit end?

[stuartbert two hats]

7 minutes ago, Homer said:

Just been on Facebook and seen loads of people sharing Jamie Oliver’s open letter to Johnson re chlorinated chicken 

Did a quick google and found these. What a fucXing hypocrite 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nMeftdr5Lss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3qcgAQGbEI

Changing your mind and evolving your viewpoint is not the same as hypocrisy.

[Kalopsia]

[Homer]

6 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Changing your mind and evolving your viewpoint is not the same as hypocrisy.

Fair point. 


'What a fucXing idiot.'

Fair?

(Edit: Just noticed that I just evolved my viewpoint funnily enough.)

Edited June 7, 2020 by Homer

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

9 hours ago, efcfanwirral said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-06-06/johnson-set-to-ease-leisure-lockdown-measures-in-u-k-times?__twitter_impression=true

Think we're just working on hope that it won't spread now...

 

2 hours ago, Ozanne said:

They don’t care, they’ve gotta give the impression everything is going back to normal. 

 

1 hour ago, Mr.Tease said:

Yup, Times pretty much confirms we're back to the original 'strategy':

So apparantly it's better to trigger an actual bloodbath...

Have you actually read that article? It’s says the plans involve allowing bars and restaurants to use outside space, and weddings can go ahead with 10 people.

Its a very slight relaxation, for the the thousands of people that have cancelled their weddings being able to go ahead with 10 gusts is still a very long way from normal.

Meanwhile if you’re in Spain you will be able to go to those really vital bull fights, or a night club if you want. 

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, Dave85radiohead said:

Nope. I get the impression that too many people are seeing it as a chance to go out drinking and be in a crowd with their mates after been frustrated in lockdown. Seeing hundreds of boozed up people throwing bottles at and attacking the police undermines the cause completely.

it really wasn't.

[steviewevie]

26 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Although my dad voted for it and I can vouch for the fact that he definitely is an idiot when it comes to politics

#metoo

[Homer]

What is it with dads and being a bit of an idiot when it comes to politics eh?

[DeanoL]

 

19 hours ago, Northtim said:

Quite an inaccurate generalisation there.  I'm an accountant in a small firm working with lots of small companies.  In the majority of cases where the businesses have been badly affected by Covid the staff have been furloughed, but will hopefully have jobs to come back to, and the biggest hit has been taken by Directors who often have not been able to take anything.  Most of these small business directors don't earn the £100k plus you might imagine.  Those busineses more marginally affected and still trading are still paying staff and again it is the directors who take the hit, and whilst they will take the gov't backed loans those will need paying back.  Watch this space in 12 months time when those loans need repaying, if a second wave is still affecting business then the economy will really tank.

You won't hear much about this.  It is small, often family owned companies, who don't get reported on.  

Small company directors are suffering because many take a very small wage and then pay themselves dividends from company profit to make up the rest. Furloughing themselves would only cover the first part. While it sucks for them, they do it that way because they pay less tax that way, at the risk of directly associating their income to the success of the business. It's a risk that's really not paying off right now.

3 hours ago, Dave85radiohead said:

To be honest if people feel safe enough to go to mass demonstrations and to days out on crowded beaches then they should be back at work where with social distancing measures they would probably be much safer.

Furlough was a scheme to protect people’s jobs and the economy whilst we were under lockdown. People are now treating it like a big holiday and if lockdown isn’t going to be respected anymore then they may as well try and reopen things.

I don’t like this government but too many people are trying to shirk responsibility for their own poor decisions .

I don't think it's that simple, but the whole protests thing is very weird. Especially given the slogan is "black lives matter" and COVID-19 demonstratably impacts the BAME community more than others, and this puts more people at risk from it.

While it probably won't have a huge impact, even if it causes a couple of extra deaths, and one of those is a black life, then it kinda undermines the whole thing really.

[DeanoL]

21 hours ago, EasyUserName said:

It's not a cock-up for the NI as I understand it, but an allowance / relief.  I am pretty sure it's this:  https://www.gov.uk/claim-employment-allowance

Furlough covers the company NI, but not with the allowance.  The end effect is that the NI cannot be reclaimed so there is an additional cost.

You should still be able to claim the allowance. 

There's some discussion on it here (part 7) -https://www.icaew.com/insights/tax-news/2020/apr-2020/cjrs-emerging-issues-and-answers 

This is actually part of the problem, this has all been done so quickly, people are not sure exactly what the rules are, and it's likely one person at a company reading the guidance and figuring out what can and can't be done. I'm not at a small company (it's over a 1000 employees worldwide) and had to nudge our HR director to re-read some of the furlough guidance as I thought she had mis-understood it. And I turned out to be right. Can only imagine how companies with 10-20 people are doing with it. But equally when an employee does come back and says "no this is wrong" it's worth looking at as it might well be wrong after all.

[Ozanne]

2 hours ago, Dave85radiohead said:

About 68 million live in the uk though and wether we like it or not they won the referendum and then a general election on the back of Brexit.

Your point was that instead of protesting they should sign petitions. Well the revoke article 50 petition is the most signed petition in our countries history and was scoffed at by the Tories. So what’s the motivation for more petitions when the most signed one didn’t do a damn thing?

 

1 hour ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

 

 

Have you actually read that article? It’s says the plans involve allowing bars and restaurants to use outside space, and weddings can go ahead with 10 people.

Its a very slight relaxation, for the the thousands of people that have cancelled their weddings being able to go ahead with 10 gusts is still a very long way from normal.

Meanwhile if you’re in Spain you will be able to go to those really vital bull fights, or a night club if you want. 

You clearly haven’t read my posts as I’ve screen shot a snippet of the article that shows a pretty damning quote from the PM from his meeting with the Chancellor. They want to speed up relaxing of rules as the R number rises, certainly gives off the impression they aren’t that bothered anymore to me.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Ozanne

[efcfanwirral]

3 hours ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I think you're completely right about this. There won't be a second lockdown now, no matter what the numbers do. I'm actually feeling pretty anxious about the whole thing as the idea of the public just having to reduce transmission without any kind of government back up is pretty nuts. We're definitely not out of the woods yet but the government are determined to act as if we are.

I do support the protests though and ordinarily would go along. As @blutarsky says it's probably partly my privilege at work that means I choose not to.

Biggest issue will be winter I think. We'll be fully open by then so the cycle begins again if they don't get track and trace properly working

It's not like we'll just suddenly stop lifting restrictions- now they are clearly ignoring the scientists I imagine we'll have gigs etc by then never mind pubs and clubs back to normal 

Edited June 7, 2020 by efcfanwirral

[zahidf]

Its clear IMO the govt has decided to give up on lockdown as too economically damaging. They're hoping that there has been enough immunity built up to stop it being too bad.

[Toilet Duck]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Its clear IMO the govt has decided to give up on lockdown as too economically damaging. They're hoping that there has been enough immunity built up to stop it being too bad.

And still no guarantee that it will work. Central bank in Sweden expects GDP to contract by 10% this year, larger contraction than Germany (forecast at -6.5%) and the Eurozone average (-7.7%). So, not locking down appears to have only resulted in a higher death rate than those close to them that did. Economy took a hit regardless.

[zahidf]

9 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

And still no guarantee that it will work. Central bank in Sweden expects GDP to contract by 10% this year, larger contraction than Germany (forecast at -6.5%) and the Eurozone average (-7.7%). So, not locking down appears to have only resulted in a higher death rate than those close to them that did. Economy took a hit regardless.

Yeah. I think we are going to go for the american model of opening up and hoping for the best!

I saw Ireland are accelerating their opening up by a few weeks though, and Pakistan have said basically they cant afford to lock down. So not alone internationally there!

[EasyUserName]

2 hours ago, DeanoL said:

You should still be able to claim the allowance. 

There's some discussion on it here (part 7) -https://www.icaew.com/insights/tax-news/2020/apr-2020/cjrs-emerging-issues-and-answers 

This is actually part of the problem, this has all been done so quickly, people are not sure exactly what the rules are, and it's likely one person at a company reading the guidance and figuring out what can and can't be done. I'm not at a small company (it's over a 1000 employees worldwide) and had to nudge our HR director to re-read some of the furlough guidance as I thought she had mis-understood it. And I turned out to be right. Can only imagine how companies with 10-20 people are doing with it. But equally when an employee does come back and says "no this is wrong" it's worth looking at as it might well be wrong after all.

That's a fair point, and thank you for the link.  The advice came from our accountants firm, who are paid as suppliers to do payroll etc.  I do forget that just because they are an expert in their area, it doesn't make them foolproof. 

 

Again, thanks for the suggestions, I'll pass it on (as it's not my area).

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

43 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Its clear IMO the govt has decided to give up on lockdown as too economically damaging. They're hoping that there has been enough immunity built up to stop it being too bad.

I wouldn’t say given up on it. Relative to our peaks we’re still behind the rest of Europe in terms of what we’ve eased in comparison. I think the only comparisons where we’re actually ahead slightly are the devolved nations and Ireland. If you look at every other country they are way ahead of us already and will continue to be for a while.

Surely the economy has to be considered though? We can’t remain in a strict lockdown forever and naturally decisions will be made that aren’t completely based on health outcomes. That in itself is consistent with normal life. As far as I can see nobody anywhere at the same stage as us, or ahead of us is maintaining a strict lockdown without any regard for their economy. I’d we’ve abandoned it then certainly the rest of Europe has abandoned it too.

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

I wouldn’t say given up on it. Relative to our peaks we’re still behind the rest of Europe in terms of what we’ve eased in comparison. I think the only comparisons where we’re actually ahead slightly are the devolved nations and Ireland. If you look at every other country they are way ahead of us already and will continue to be for a while.

Surely the economy has to be considered though? We can’t remain in a strict lockdown forever and naturally decisions will be made that aren’t completely based on health outcomes. That in itself is consistent with normal life. As far as I can see nobody anywhere at the same stage as us, or ahead of us is maintaining a strict lockdown without any regard for their economy. I’d we’ve abandoned it then certainly the rest of Europe has abandoned it too.

Oh, despite what they say, I dont think any European government is going to impose a second lockdown any time soon. 

It's not a choice I'd want to make: I think we've had the worse of both worlds. A badly timed lockdown which has messed us up economically and resulted in a much higher death rate.

[zahidf]

Zero covid deaths reported today in northern island and scotland.

I know, weekend reporting, but still a positive overall.

[Ozanne]

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Oh, despite what they say, I dont think any European government is going to impose a second lockdown any time soon. 

It's not a choice I'd want to make: I think we've had the worse of both worlds. A badly timed lockdown which has messed us up economically and resulted in a much higher death rate.

Yes it was definitely times too late, more and more is coming out about that now. It’ll be a key aspect of any public inquiry. 

[Chrisp1986]

17 hours ago, crazyfool1 said:

where did u get that info ? not doubting it but not seen that function anywhere  

You can sort by number of views or replies on main forum page. Not far off overtaking the Radiohead thread!

[steviewevie]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/07/immunological-dark-matter-does-it-exist-coronavirus-population-immunity

[Sack truck]

On 6/6/2020 at 3:47 PM, Northtim said:

Quite an inaccurate generalisation there.  I'm an accountant in a small firm working with lots of small companies.  In the majority of cases where the businesses have been badly affected by Covid the staff have been furloughed, but will hopefully have jobs to come back to, and the biggest hit has been taken by Directors who often have not been able to take anything.  Most of these small business directors don't earn the £100k plus you might imagine.  Those busineses more marginally affected and still trading are still paying staff and again it is the directors who take the hit, and whilst they will take the gov't backed loans those will need paying back.  Watch this space in 12 months time when those loans need repaying, if a second wave is still affecting business then the economy will really tank.

You won't hear much about this.  It is small, often family owned companies, who don't get reported on.  

Just catching up but this is where I find myself. Paid staff the top up (have 7 staff) sales guys have done well out of it with average amount paid they earns previous year up to the £2.5k. Not paid myself anything for 3 months. The voices saying “should have paid yourself PAYE then” there actually isn’t much in it but it’s enough to make a difference of say a holiday in the year or a Glastonbury. Average wage I take in total is probably around the national average. We already pay corporation tax on profits then further tax on dividends. Some years when no profits then it’s a very basic wage 
 

I’ve resisted taking the gov £50k loan but have spoken to a few small business owners who are taking the loan with every intention of draining it out their business and simply shutting down then starting again. We will all have to pay for these losses going forward
 

I can manage another couple of months from savings then will need to make a call re loan or staff or both. It’s been tough and not sure how it’s going to pan out. I’ve been updating staff as best I can, don’t want to panic them. A few seem to be really enjoying the break!

[Crazyfool01]

todays death numbers continuing on a downward track so thats positive ..... really hoping that continues ..... I guess next weekend we will get some kind of impression what those beach visits have had on infection rates and hospital admissions .... and then will have some idea if the marches will follow 

[Ozanne]

I've missed the daily briefings over the weekend, I've got quite used to them every day.

[shoptildrop]

I know this is daily fail but I still stand by my previous thoughts that it will be announced next week that hairdressers and beauty will open from 15th and they will reduce 2m rule to 1m by end of the month for pubs opening on 4th July - headline grabbing fodder "Pubs open to celebrate our independence day"  

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8396007/Boris-Johnson-wants-slash-social-distancing-one-metre.html