When will this shit end?

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, shoptildrop said:

I know this is daily fail but I still stand by my previous thoughts that it will be announced next week that hairdressers and beauty will open from 15th and they will reduce 2m rule to 1m by end of the month for pubs opening on 4th July - headline grabbing fodder "Pubs open to celebrate our independence day"  

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8396007/Boris-Johnson-wants-slash-social-distancing-one-metre.html 

I have heard the Coronavirus is feeling a bit tired and can't travel further than 1 meter nowadays.

[shoptildrop]

Just now, Ozanne said:

I have heard the Coronavirus is feeling a bit tired and can't travel further than 1 meter nowadays.

Yeah seems so, it goes on holiday now and then too and certain people can play hide n seek as it doesn't affect them you see  

[Cream Soda]

12 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I have heard the Coronavirus is feeling a bit tired and can't travel further than 1 meter nowadays.

In all seriousness, in someone without symptoms is it actually likely for a virus to travel that far?  The WHO say it isn't airborne.  Maybe one for @Toilet Duck

Edited June 7, 2020 by Cream Soda

[Ozanne]

Just now, Cream Soda said:

In all seriousness, in someone without symptoms is it actually likely for a virus to travel that far?  The WHO say it isn't airborne.  Maybe one for @Toilet Duck

Yeah def for TD, but isn't it dependent on outside factors such as the environment?

[Cream Soda]

Just now, Ozanne said:

Yeah def for TD, but isn't it dependent on outside factors such as the environment?

I guess so but I still can't see how it could easily travel more than 1m if someone has no symptoms.

 

[zahidf]

7 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

In all seriousness, in someone without symptoms is it actually likely for a virus to travel that far?  The WHO say it isn't airborne.  Maybe one for @Toilet Duck

It reduces the risk. Also, they've assumed people wont actually stay 2 metres apart, so it's a bit of wiggle room. You can still catch it at 2 metres though 

[Cream Soda]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

It reduces the risk. Also, they've assumed people wont actually stay 2 metres apart, so it's a bit of wiggle room. You can still catch it at 2 metres though 

Unlikely if asymptomatic though I would imagine?

[Ozanne]

5 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

I guess so but I still can't see how it could easily travel more than 1m if someone has no symptoms.

 

If you didn't have symptoms then in theory you could touch your mouth or nose then touch a surface, someone would pick it up from that?

 

Or if you are within close proximity to someone and droplets can be spread when you speak and possible breath. I think!

[steviewevie]

it's all about risk...1m has higher risk...but the risk is till pretty low when number of cases is dropping.

[Cream Soda]

Just now, Ozanne said:

If you didn't have symptoms then in theory you could touch your mouth or nose then touch a surface, someone would pick it up from that?

Or if you are within close proximity to someone and droplets can be spread when you speak and possible breath. I think!

I get the touching surfaces thing, but that would apply regardless of social distancing wouldn't it.  Being 2 meters away doesn't make it any safer than 1m , someone could have touched something 5 minutes ago and walked away and you could still get it.

[efcfanwirral]

27 minutes ago, shoptildrop said:

I know this is daily fail but I still stand by my previous thoughts that it will be announced next week that hairdressers and beauty will open from 15th and they will reduce 2m rule to 1m by end of the month for pubs opening on 4th July - headline grabbing fodder "Pubs open to celebrate our independence day"  

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8396007/Boris-Johnson-wants-slash-social-distancing-one-metre.html 

Ah yes a few days after the deadline for extension runs out and they can stick two fingers up and blame the nasty EU with their oppressively high standards for stopping us making a deal

[Cream Soda]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

it's all about risk...1m has higher risk...but the risk is till pretty low when number of cases is dropping.

Yeah...so to me it doesn't seem a totally unreasonable thing to do in the current situation.

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

Unlikely if asymptomatic though I would imagine?

I'm not 100% sure: they're not massively clear how it spreads, but its mainly contact and being indoors and close

 

[shoptildrop]

Just now, efcfanwirral said:

Ah yes a few days after the deadline for extension runs out and they can stick two fingers up and blame the nasty EU with their oppressively high standards for stopping us making a deal

yep that as well   seems Boris's oven ready amazing deal is a dud and he's trying to backtrack on everything he agreed to in order to get that no deal Brexit they want for some reason

[Ozanne]

7 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

I get the touching surfaces thing, but that would apply regardless of social distancing wouldn't it.  Being 2 meters away doesn't make it any safer than 1m , someone could have touched something 5 minutes ago and walked away and you could still get it.

Yes it would, I didn't think of that in relation to distance.

[Ozanne]

Interesting BA are suing the government due to the quarantine, this is kind of important given the difficulties the airline industry will/are experiencing.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Ozanne

[EasyUserName]

Just now, Ozanne said:

Interesting BA are suing the government due to the quarantine, this is kid of important given the difficulties the airline industry will/are experiencing.

I find it a little ironic given how (on the surface) they seem to be taking the opportunity to cut back benefits for their staff / renegotiate contracts.  Obviously I don't know the full situation but they really seem to hammering their staff.

[Ozanne]

7 minutes ago, EasyUserName said:

I find it a little ironic given how (on the surface) they seem to be taking the opportunity to cut back benefits for their staff / renegotiate contracts.  Obviously I don't know the full situation but they really seem to hammering their staff.

Virgin Atlantic were especially brutal on their staff. I agree they do seem to be tough with their people. This quarantine will certainly harm the airline industry even more though, not making an excuse for them though. 

[EasyUserName]

4 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Virgin Atlantic were especially brutal on their staff. I agree they do seem to be tough with their people. This quarantine will certainly harm the airline industry even more though, not making an excuse for them though. 

I've seen comments on employment forums talking about 60% cuts for some staff. It just reads to me like an opportunistic clean out of legacy contracts. But, as I said, I don't know their figures - maybe it really is that bad.

[efcfanwirral]

I think we will need to get used to businesses suing the government for attempting to protect its citizens when we get into bed with the Americans...

[Toilet Duck]

1 hour ago, Cream Soda said:

In all seriousness, in someone without symptoms is it actually likely for a virus to travel that far?  The WHO say it isn't airborne.  Maybe one for @Toilet Duck

So, 2m vs 1m has a significant impact on risk (symptomatic or asymptomatic isn’t really the issue, asymptomatic carriers account for a large chunk of infections). The Lancet paper published recently was fairly unequivocal about this (it’s based on how far larger droplets spread). Masks worn by the infected individual reduced that risk 6 fold (from the same paper). So, unless people are willing to wear a mask to protect others, then we’ll have to keep 2m apart (I think popping a mask on is a small ask to get things back to “normal” a bit more safely, but apparently I’m in the minority and about 60-70% of people will need to do it for it to have the desired impact). Maybe people will get used to them when they are mandatory on public transport and will also use them in shops as well, but I’m not all that hopeful unless the person coordinating the entrance queue insists on a mask before entrance to the shop. Part of the problem has been continued mixed messages about them, so no wonder people are confused. 

[EasyUserName]

4 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

So, 2m vs 1m has a significant impact on risk (symptomatic or asymptomatic isn’t really the issue, asymptomatic carriers account for a large chunk of infections). The Lancet paper published recently was fairly unequivocal about this (it’s based on how far larger droplets spread). Masks worn by the infected individual reduced that risk 6 fold (from the same paper). So, unless people are willing to wear a mask to protect others, then we’ll have to keep 2m apart (I think popping a mask on is a small ask to get things back to “normal” a bit more safely, but apparently I’m in the minority and about 60-70% of people will need to do it for it to have the desired impact). Maybe people will get used to them when they are mandatory on public transport and will also use them in shops as well, but I’m not all that hopeful unless the person coordinating the entrance queue insists on a mask before entrance to the shop. Part of the problem has been continued mixed messages about them, so no wonder people are confused. 

Prices don't help here, and the flood of fakes. It wasn't that long ago they were dirt cheap. Stupid money now.

[Ozanne]

11 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

So, 2m vs 1m has a significant impact on risk (symptomatic or asymptomatic isn’t really the issue, asymptomatic carriers account for a large chunk of infections). The Lancet paper published recently was fairly unequivocal about this (it’s based on how far larger droplets spread). Masks worn by the infected individual reduced that risk 6 fold (from the same paper). So, unless people are willing to wear a mask to protect others, then we’ll have to keep 2m apart (I think popping a mask on is a small ask to get things back to “normal” a bit more safely, but apparently I’m in the minority and about 60-70% of people will need to do it for it to have the desired impact). Maybe people will get used to them when they are mandatory on public transport and will also use them in shops as well, but I’m not all that hopeful unless the person coordinating the entrance queue insists on a mask before entrance to the shop. Part of the problem has been continued mixed messages about them, so no wonder people are confused. 

How far generally do droplets travel if someone is talking, at a normal level and not shouting?

[Toilet Duck]

6 minutes ago, EasyUserName said:

Prices don't help here, and the flood of fakes. It wasn't that long ago they were dirt cheap. Stupid money now.

Very true! Italy introduced maximum pricing, that has to be the way to go. In the lab, we’d buy a box of 100 brand name surgical masks for about 16 euro, my local pharmacy is currently selling a box of 50 for €90...madness. Lidl was selling them for half that, but it’s still a ripoff. Also not exactly environmentally friendly to use a ton of disposable masks each week, so washable, reusable ones with more than 1 layer are the way to go. 

[Toilet Duck]

6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

How far generally do droplets travel if someone is talking, at a normal level and not shouting?

It’s too difficult to measure this type of thing. You could say “1m is ok, but no laughing allowed!”. It just gets silly to try to account for anything that could happen, so easier to say 2m (3m is safer again by the way). Indoors v outdoors is a whole different kettle of fish though. Risks indoors are clearly much higher, I’m not too worried about transient close contact outdoors. I don’t wear a mask when I’m out and about, I just bang one on when I go into a shop.