When will this shit end?

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, crazyfool1 said:

Totally get that and respect it ... I’ve not had a bubble and my folks are local with the worry of my mum getting worse ... if mum wasn’t I’d be quite happy to stick with not seeing them ... such a dilemma 

Well yeah in that case I think it’s fair enough for the reasons you mention and that it would be within the current rules too. In that scenario I would probably wait for the protection of the first dose. 
 

2 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

You reckon? If we vaccinate everyone why would we need to have restrictions? We would be like New Zealand 

Because we wouldn’t know the full effects of the vaccines plus I think they’d want to be really careful and protect against any new variants. Plus masks cost nothing to the overall economy. 

[Ozanne]

Just now, JoeyT said:

Totally respect that.

My personal view is that just because the rules don't say you can meet up it logically doesn't make sense.

Given time the rules will change but the fact for instance your parents have been vaccinated and you perhaps haven't won't necessarily before the rules allow.

Therefore there is no material change in the risk level in which case.

If that makes sense?

Because that’s not fair, we can’t have a system where the vaccinated go out and about. How would we know who’s vaccinated or not? We don’t know the effects of the vaccines on transmissibility yet either. In the time frame your suggesting the virus is still to prevalent and hospitals are still too stretched for people to be mixing even with the vaccine. In the future those conditions will have improved so people can start to mix more. In solidarity with NHS workers I also feel we should keep to the rules. 
 

In your mind there might not be any additional risk but there might be and that’s partly it. Plus the rules are in place for a reason so we should really keep to them. 

[JoeyT]

Pull your socks up Keir...

 

[xxialac]

7 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Lol what?

 

I don't know if that's true or not but let's not pretend the current cabinet have been anything other than very aggressive and using an array of dirty tricks, (e.g. suspening parliament, weakening the executive, legislating at the last minute, attacking the judiciary, putting in place a puppet attorney general, threatening the BBC and using unnamed spokespeople to undermine others)

[JoeyT]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Because that’s not fair, we can’t have a system where the vaccinated go out and about. How would we know who’s vaccinated or not? We don’t know the effects of the vaccines on transmissibility yet either. In the time frame your suggesting the virus is still to prevalent and hospitals are still too stretched for people to be mixing even with the vaccine. In the future those conditions will have improved so people can start to mix more. In solidarity with NHS workers I also feel we should keep to the rules. 
 

In your mind there might not be any additional risk but there might be and that’s partly it. Plus the rules are in place for a reason so we should really keep to them. 

Again only personally speaking but I truly feel that this level of "rule breaking" will be happening everywhere within the coming weeks.

Like I say it comes down to looking at the situation logically. 

You mention not having any stats on the effects of transmissibility but am I not correct in thinking all the data coming from Israel is positive?

 

[duke88]

13 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Lol what?

 

How is the UK the bad guy here?

[JoeyT]

 

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, JoeyT said:

Again only personally speaking but I truly feel that this level of "rule breaking" will be happening everywhere within the coming weeks.

Like I say it comes down to looking at the situation logically. 

You mention not having any stats on the effects of transmissibility but am I not correct in thinking all the data coming from Israel is positive?

 

I think you are right and that people will start to make different judgements as the vaccine gets rolled out ... my thoughts are slowly changing as to how I would play things and the levels of risk begin to change ... the govt rules are a blanket thing and don’t take account of individual circumstances.... like family’s all having had the jab .... 

[zahidf]

5 minutes ago, xxialac said:

I don't know if that's true or not but let's not pretend the current cabinet have been anything other than very aggressive and using an array of dirty tricks, (e.g. suspening parliament, weakening the executive, legislating at the last minute, attacking the judiciary, putting in place a puppet attorney general, threatening the BBC and using unnamed spokespeople to undermine others)

Well you do know. It isnt true. 

 

Whats the rest of this governemtns behaviour got to do with the EU trying to pick a fight with us

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

I think you are right and that people will start to make different judgements as the vaccine gets rolled out ... my thoughts are slowly changing as to how I would play things and the levels of risk begin to change ... the govt rules are a blanket thing and don’t take account of individual circumstances.... like family’s all having had the jab .... 

I expect that will go into the thinking when it comes to loosening the rules. I expect theyll allow household mixing with vaccinated people in March time, with the 'granny hugs grankids for the first time' headlines

[MEGABOWL]

39 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Just out of interest ... has it changed anyone’s approach to seeing parents /grandparents having them vaccinated if they are close by after some protection comes n from the doses ?  Obviiously the virus  might well still be transmissible ... just wondered if people would all be waiting for second doses ? 

Have to wait and see what my Parents say. If they’re happy to chance it after Jab 1 I’ll be seeing them, while taking plenty of precautions still. They’re desperate to see their Grandchildren so I can’t see them waiting much longer.  There’s the Sturgeon factor to consider too with them being in England and me in Scotland. Who knows what she’ll have done by then.

[xxialac]

3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Well you do know. It isnt true. 

 

Whats the rest of this governemtns behaviour got to do with the EU trying to pick a fight with us

We can't possibly know what is going on behind the scenes. Are the government exerting undue pressure on Astrazeneca for example?

I'm sure it's more nuanced than you are making out.

[st dan]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

Well you do know. It isnt true. 

 

Whats the rest of this governemtns behaviour got to do with the EU trying to pick a fight with us

The EU was always going to attack the UK at any given opportunity after Brexit was delivered. 
Anything we deem as a success and start shouting about, they will instantly shoot down as they don’t want the likes of Spain, France, Germany getting a sniff that there is opportunity of certain benefits outside of the EU. I think deep down the EU leaders all pretty worried about what the future could hold, so the us vs them narrative helps to provide the unity it needs right now.
With the added caveat of course that everybody else generally hates the UK!

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

I expect that will go into the thinking when it comes to loosening the rules. I expect theyll allow household mixing with vaccinated people in March time, with the 'granny hugs grankids for the first time' headlines

Yep I think you are right ... although wondering how they will differentiate between first and second doses ... or will they be happy with the first dose 

[Ozanne]

11 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

Again only personally speaking but I truly feel that this level of "rule breaking" will be happening everywhere within the coming weeks.

Like I say it comes down to looking at the situation logically. 

You mention not having any stats on the effects of transmissibility but am I not correct in thinking all the data coming from Israel is positive?

 

That data is only preliminary and they made a big point to say that this week in the briefings along with that we need to wait for more detailed data. They have also said that we shouldn’t go loosening restrictions too soon as otherwise we could see another wave which puts further pressure on the NHS.

The logical answer would be to follow the rules and when the medical experts say it’s safe to go meeting with your loved again then to do so. If everyone had your view point then it would be unmanageable and where would you draw the line. That’s why they aren’t saying to use your judgement.

I know it’s tough but it’s only a few more weeks, we’ve come this far, we can all hold on for a little bit longer.

[zahidf]

7 minutes ago, xxialac said:

We can't possibly know what is going on behind the scenes. Are the government exerting undue pressure on Astrazeneca for example?

I'm sure it's more nuanced than you are making out.

Ranty EU guys doesnt seem to have evidence of the UK doing that. Thats a major accusation to make!

Ranty EU guy is being nuanced when he accuses the UK of starting a trade war?

[zahidf]

7 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Yep I think you are right ... although wondering how they will differentiate between first and second doses ... or will they be happy with the first dose 

Theyll be in a position to know more by mid Feb. I cant see them keeping the rules to not mix when they know mos vaccinated grannies arent going to stay away from their grankids

[Fuzzy Afro]

11 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

 

One of the issues with this is that there just aren’t many Lib Dem votes to go around in the red wall areas that will be the main battleground of the 2024 election. A lot of those seats were won by Tories with a thin majority over Labour with the Brexit Party in third place and no discernible Lib Dem vote to eat away at.

 

Now the place where the Lib Dems did get a lot of votes were in Southern England remain leaning seats that decided they were more anti Corbyn than anti Brexit so they voted Tory narrowly over the Lib Dem’s (look at places like Winchester or even Dominic Raab’s seat Esher & Walton). Labour eating away at LD votes in these areas is NOT helpful from an anti Tory standpoint.

 

The only route I can see into number 10 for Labour atm is to build a Blair-esque coalition of both the red wall and middle England seats like Harlow, Kettering, Welwyn Hatfield etc by winning the economic argument and being patriotically British. I think on bare bones policy we’ll see a lot of convergence over things like state intervention and even immigration/Brexit between the two main parties, which means that the only way for Starmer to overthrow the government is to just look more competent than Johnson or whoever the PM is at the time.

 

A month ago he was doing well at this but I think the “Captain Hindsight” stuff isn’t a great look for him. 

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

Ranty EU guys doesnt seem to have evidence of the UK doing that. Thats a major accusation to make!

Ranty EU guy is being nuanced when he accuses the UK of starting a trade war?

Are you saying that over the years ranty UK guys haven't accused the EU of terrible things?

[Ozanne]

I thought this vaccine thing wasn’t a EU v UK thing?

[JoeyT]

Just now, Ozanne said:

I thought this vaccine thing wasn’t a EU v UK thing?

It shouldn't be but the EU are doing their best to make it one by the sounds of things.

All of the chat of this is coming from the EU's side as far as I can see? I don't think anyone within the UK government has said anything publicly?

Happy to be proved wrong. 

[eFestivals]

55 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Just out of interest ... has it changed anyone’s approach to seeing parents /grandparents having them vaccinated if they are close by after some protection comes n from the doses ?  Obviiously the virus  might well still be transmissible ... just wondered if people would all be waiting for second doses ? 

my 85 year old mum hasn't had the vaccine yet - rather weirdly because she's in hospital.

But my attitude towards her vulnerability has recently changed anyway because she's just had covid. While there's no guarantees with that I reckon it's still a better situation than if she hadn't had covid, particularly as there's recently been covid in my house.

As it happens I'll have to be spending a week or two with her in the very near future to help her move house, so having a bit less concern is a comforting thing.

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I thought this vaccine thing wasn’t a EU v UK thing?

It shouldn't be but the EU justice commissioner is trying to make it one like I posted earlier!

All the UK govt (rightly) has said is that its between AZN and the EU and has nothing to do with them. Its the EU officials who are bringing up export bans and accusing the UK of starting a trade war!

[guypjfreak]

4 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Ranty EU guys doesnt seem to have evidence of the UK doing that. Thats a major accusation to make!

Ranty EU guy is being nuanced when he accuses the UK of starting a trade war?

Only been out of the EU and now they want England to come to there rescue AGAIN to save them with our vaccines... WW1 and ww2 and now covid 19 lol....... Once we're all Vaccinated then as always the amazing UK can go rescue the French and sort out the Germans lolol 

 

 

[DeanoL]

 

9 hours ago, xxialac said:

I'm also positive but see it the other way.

I think by August we will still have social distancing (and masks in certain situations, they cost the economy nothing to implement after all) though still vastly more freedom.

But international holidays happening before then, probably back in May.

I've been thinking about international holidays and it's really confusing. If we vaccinate the whole population by summer, what do we do? Do we open up and encourage people to come over here - the COVID-safe tourist hotspot of the world? Or keep borders closed for fear of new strains? Will other countries open up to UK citizens - people they can safely have over for tourists? And even if they do, will anything be open? 

I'm not sure we're in the same position as the EU - we will have our vulnerable people protected in a month, but then we'll be able to do most of the rest by summer. We can have a slightly later summer with everyone vaccinated. Will the rest of the EU just take a gamble, on the basis that they'll have the vulnerable vaccinated by summer, but if they wait to do everyone it'll be sometime in 2022. That could be too long a wait, they might instead choose to open up once just the first few groups are done.