When will this shit end?

[Toilet Duck]

23 minutes ago, Leyrulion said:

Has there been any push back/pressure on the EMA for taking so long to come to a decision? UK, Canada, USA have all approved, are they really going to do something different?

Or is there surprise at how fast the u.k. has pushed through an emergency approval? 

Hasn’t really been any pushback to be honest, no pressure either, they have their process and I think everyone just wants them to do it properly. It provides approval for wider usage and outlines timetables for when the company has to provide additional data to convert what they call “conditional market authorisation” into full market authorisation. They also got the full data set a couple of weeks after the FDA (each regulator has its own format for data submissions, which is a right pain for the company submitting it!). The HPRA here in Ireland could authorise it tomorrow based on the MHRA or FDA assessment if they wanted to, but the EMA asked national regulators to stay with a centralised assessment and distribution plan, so they all have. Ultimately, we’ll get way more vaccine as part of the EU procurement than we would have if we didn’t take part in it. It’s all coming, we just have to sit tight a bit longer!

[Zoo Music Girl]

 

 

[stuartbert two hats]

7 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

 

 

Apparently there's a really dramatic scene where the detective breaks down in tears. Or laughter, it's not quite clear.

[March Hare]

57 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

aren't londoners travelling across the country to visit family members over christmas just going to help spread this mutated virus across the country?

Much like the first wave where cases rose in London far ahead of the rest of the country 

[incident]

1 hour ago, stuartbert two hats said:

It's a funny one, because whilst the mistake has put the regulators in a tough position, it's potentially given us a 30% boost on disease prevention efficacy and (from memory) at least triple the sterilising effect. It's a massive improvement in every way - for the group tested - because of the mistake. So it's quite hard to call that "unfortunate". It's awkward and it looks bad, but it's a wonderful piece of luck.

Yep and what sceptics seem keen to ignore is that science has a long history of discovery by error and that it's rarely been considered problematic in the past.

Without comparable mistakes, we might not have the Microwave, Penicillin, X-Rays, or Post-It notes amongst numerous other things. So while yes it's a screw up, as you say it's great luck and the fact it's a cock up shouldn't be used as a reason to dismiss or devalue what we now know. Take the win and move on.

Granted, it's now essential that having made this error and learned from it, the dosages are measured correctly when being rolled out to the public - but with it having switched to commercial rather than bespoke production that should easy to achieve.

[Fuzzy Afro]

4 minutes ago, incident said:

Yep and what sceptics seem keen to ignore is that science has a long history of discovery by error and that it's rarely been considered problematic in the past.

Without comparable mistakes, we might not have the Microwave, Penicillin, X-Rays, or Post-It notes amongst numerous other things. So while yes it's a screw up, as you say it's great luck and the fact it's a cock up shouldn't be used as a reason to dismiss or devalue what we now know. Take the win and move on.

Granted, it's now essential that having made this error and learned from it, the dosages are measured correctly when being rolled out to the public - but with it having switched to commercial rather than bespoke production that should easy to achieve.

Wait what?

[efcfanwirral]

Is that true about Eton??

[incident]

6 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Wait what?

The guy was trying to invent a new type of superglue and got the formula wrong.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Is that true about Eton??

Looks like it due to an outbreak in teachers.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/11/eton-college-closes-temporarily-due-coronavirus-outbreak-among/amp/

[Andre91]

We have had a member of our teaching staff test positive and just 26 Year 9 students are off isolating and we are all a little bewildered as to why only the one class has been sent home and not the whole year group (which is what happened with Year 7 and 8 earlier in the term). We also had two other teachers sent home yesterday because they were displaying symptoms and were told to book tests. 
 

Lots of people are rightfully angry that they could potentially have to spend their Christmas isolating if they have to do so from Wednesday. 

[eFestivals]

7 hours ago, incident said:

Without comparable mistakes, we might not have the Microwave, Penicillin, X-Rays, or Post-It notes

which begs the question...

How the fuck did civilisation exist before we had post-it notes?

😛 

[steviewevie]

 

[Zoo Music Girl]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

To be fair this was all over the news when Manchester went into tier 3. Rightly so, but I don't think it wasn't covered. Burnham was all over the place.

More info on the new variant:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55312505

[Copperface]

9 hours ago, tigger123 said:

Did anyone see the Panorama on the Oxford vaccine? Makes me think an announcement on its approval is imminent, possibly even tomorrow or Wednesday, given the programme's MO was clearly to ease people's fears regarding it.

Ironically, I actually thought it raised more questions than answers, as they kept referring to the low does/standard dose as a mistake, without even asking Andrew Pollard the question as to why the mistake happened, when he, as head of trials, is the man responsible for the error. Clearly it was a mistake, but it made me feel more uneasy about it than before. I 100% would still take the vaccine as still believe it to be safe. The mistake was clearly unfortunate, but there being a mistake in vaccine dosage doesn't therefore mean that it follows that the vaccine isn't safe. I just kept thinking to myself throughout that if I was an anti-vaxxer/reluctant to take it, would this convince me otherwise and the firm answer was no, as the programme would have done nothing to cessate my fears!

If you hadn't seen it the situation is explained here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55308216

"The Italian manufacturers used a different technique to Oxford to check the concentration of the vaccine - effectively how many viral particles are floating in each dose. When the Oxford scientists used their method, it appeared that the Italian vaccine was double strength. What to do? Calls were made to the medical regulators. It was agreed that volunteers should be given a half measure of the vaccine, on the basis that it was likely to equate to something more like a regular dose. "

[Homer]

9 hours ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

 

 

How this hasn't been upvoted is beyond me (... in my defence, I'm out of upvotes).

[Fuzzy Afro]

13 hours ago, steviewevie said:

oh, didn't know that.

Italy and Netherlands.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/14/italy-likely-to-follow-germany-with-covid-christmas-lockdown

The Dutch lockdown is less strict than our tier 2. Household mixing is allowed up to a maximum of 2 adult guests. A 3rd adult guest will be allowed over the Christmas period.

 

It’s a total nonsense idea that the rest of Europe is having draconian lockdowns over Christmas and the UK is a free for all. 

[Zoo Music Girl]

So basically post-Christmas is going to be fucking grim across all of Europe.

We are having a bit of a rethink at the moment. Already cancelled plans to see my parents outside tomorrow due to the tier 3 announcement. At the moment my in-laws are coming for the day at some point next week (not Christmas day itself), driving straight from them to us, which avoids us having to use public transport or hire a car. We've been pretty locked down really. But I'm still not feeling the safe about it.

It would just be so shit for them to get it when a vaccine is so close.

That said they don't really follow the rules that closely themselves. 

[tigger123]

Pubs in London are going to be rammed tonight aren’t they...

[Fuzzy Afro]

10 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

So basically post-Christmas is going to be fucking grim across all of Europe.

We are having a bit of a rethink at the moment. Already cancelled plans to see my parents outside tomorrow due to the tier 3 announcement. At the moment my in-laws are coming for the day at some point next week (not Christmas day itself), driving straight from them to us, which avoids us having to use public transport or hire a car. We've been pretty locked down really. But I'm still not feeling the safe about it.

It would just be so shit for them to get it when a vaccine is so close.

That said they don't really follow the rules that closely themselves. 

Sounds like they’re more of a risk to you and your other half than you are to them 

[Zoo Music Girl]

Just now, Fuzzy Afro said:

Sounds like they’re more of a risk to you and your other half than you are to them 

That would be true if one of them wasn't over 75 with cancer. There's just that small risk we might pick it up from the supermarket or our neighbours who we share a hallway with (and have a kid at school). We probably will see them I think, but I'm just not feeling great about the whole thing.

[Fuzzy Afro]

1 minute ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

That would be true if one of them wasn't over 75 with cancer. There's just that small risk we might pick it up from the supermarket or our neighbours who we share a hallway with (and have a kid at school). We probably will see them I think, but I'm just not feeling great about the whole thing.

Just to reassure you a bit, a family member of mine is going through cancer treatment at the minute and has been told they are not at any additional risk because of the cancer. If your in-law is going through chemo, then that’s a different story because they need to immunosuppress you, but cancer itself and treatments like surgery and radiotherapy do not increase risk of developing serious covid 🙂 

[Fuzzy Afro]

4 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

That would be true if one of them wasn't over 75 with cancer. There's just that small risk we might pick it up from the supermarket or our neighbours who we share a hallway with (and have a kid at school). We probably will see them I think, but I'm just not feeling great about the whole thing.

Though I should add that my cousin is 25 not 75

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

So basically post-Christmas is going to be fucking grim across all of Europe.

We are having a bit of a rethink at the moment. Already cancelled plans to see my parents outside tomorrow due to the tier 3 announcement. At the moment my in-laws are coming for the day at some point next week (not Christmas day itself), driving straight from them to us, which avoids us having to use public transport or hire a car. We've been pretty locked down really. But I'm still not feeling the safe about it.

It would just be so shit for them to get it when a vaccine is so close.

That said they don't really follow the rules that closely themselves. 

Part of me still thinks the government will make the call next week is cases still continue to rise and show high numbers. At least yet know you’ve been doing the right thing and just staying in your household!

[zahidf]

I dont see how the govt can cancel Xmas now... Maybe reduce the time period? instead of 5 days, have 3 days ( Xmas Eve-Boxing Day)

[Fuzzy Afro]

4 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Part of me still thinks the government will make the call next week is cases still continue to rise and show high numbers. At least yet know you’ve been doing the right thing and just staying in your household!

I’m smelling a u-turn at least in part. They’re already moving towards “discouraging” people from making full use of the three household bubbles.