When will this shit end?

[Ozanne]

Just now, Fuzzy Afro said:

So you think we should and will learn to live with it if the vaccine turns out to be a dud? 

Actually I’ve said the opposite of what you claimed above. I’ve said if no vaccine by the Spring I can see both the public and Governments appetite for restrictions to fall away. I’ve also said I’m very confident Glastonbury will be on even without a vaccine. It’s a bit unfair to claim to know what I would say when I’ve in fact said the opposite. 

[zahidf]

7 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

And then when the vaccine found in spring is only 50% effective, you’ll be calling for more restrictions until a better vaccine is found. Rinse and repeat. 

Nah, the death rate will be low enough to not overwhelm the health service ( which should be upgraded anyway) so it wouldnt be as bad as it is now

 

Once there is a vaccine, there wont be any appetite for further restrictions. Barely any now

Edited October 13, 2020 by zahidf

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Actually I’ve said the opposite of what you claimed above. I’ve said if no vaccine by the Spring I can see both the public and Governments appetite for restrictions to fall away. I’ve also said I’m very confident Glastonbury will be on even without a vaccine. It’s a bit unfair to claim to know what I would say when I’ve in fact said the opposite. 

Do you honestly believe Glastonbury will be on in 9 months time when we currently have millions of people who aren't allowed to see friends of family? 

I'm not allowed anyone in my house after tonight but in 9 months there will be a tented city popping up... 

Edited October 13, 2020 by RobertProsineckisLighter

[steviewevie]

I reckon the circuit break idea is much better than what we have, different areas under different restrictions for who knows how long...everyone pissed off. Maybe do a hard core 2 week shut everything, everyone stay in, anyone who leaves their house gets shot...and then go back to current rule of 6 for rest of winter, unless need another circuit break in late winter or early spring.

 

[steviewevie]

Just now, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Do you honestly believe Glastonbury will be on in 9 months time when we currently have millions of people who aren't allowed to see friends of family? 

I don't. Thought it was 50/50...but don't think it will happen now, unless we get a vaccine that works very effectively and is rolled out massively early in the year.

[DeanoL]

26 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

All things you can sit at home and do, on your own. 

I really don't think you understand the issue is the removal of actual physical human interaction with other people. 

But that's different to what you initially said which is:

Quote

All the things people do to unwind, relax and have some escapism are being removed piece by piece. 

Had you said "all my physical human interaction is being removed" then I would have agreed with you. Instead you uttered some nonsesne hyperbole and claimed to speak for "people" and not just yourself. 

I'm not saying it's not bad, and it certainly effects some people more than others, but it's not helpful to say stuff that's clearly not true.

[efcfanwirral]

I think there will be a generalised near permanent lifting of restrictions to August levels at vaccine time, but I don't see the types of gatherings we on here want to happen coming back in 2021 at  the very least. That would placate the rest of society who don't go to these events because they will be able to live pretty much as they did before. And the government will look like they're doing something by keeping gathering numbers down.

Edited October 13, 2020 by efcfanwirral

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Do you honestly believe Glastonbury will be on in 9 months time when we currently have millions of people who aren't allowed to see friends of family? 

I'm not allowed anyone in my house after tonight but in 9 months there will be a tented city popping up... 

I’ve said this in the other thread. 

I think there’s a very good chance it goes ahead. In the 6 months alone testing has been vastly improved and we have 2 treatments. Give it another 6 months we'll have gone through the Winter, will have even more testing capacity and likely quick testing results too. A vaccine or more treatments even that can be given to higher risk people. Plus will there be an appetite in Government and the country for restrictions on events next summer, I'm not so sure there would be.

Therefore I would there's a good chance the festival goes ahead if you can prove before you are COVID free, log it via the NHS app and your registration. It's not 100% full proof but nothing is.

[JoeyT]

Seems some gyms in the liverpool area are standing firm and refusing to close:

[efcfanwirral]

Though to add to my previous point- I think there will be a lot of live music next summer. It might not be exactly as we remember but that then brings the question of....do you love music itself or getting smashed and getting close to people in a field 😂

Personally I'd take a whole summer of those socially distanced gigs over nothing. No different to seated gigs in my opinion- just more personal space! 

Will be interesting to see who innovates out of the existing promoters and festival organisers 

Edited October 13, 2020 by efcfanwirral

[DeanoL]

34 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

No no, it’s entirely possible that music is never coming back in its old guise. 

Absolute worst case there will be seated gigs with a bit more spacing by the end of next year. Live music itself isn't at risk but I can see the argument that standing gigs may be gone for a good long while, and possibly for good if "a long while" is long enough that the remaining venues all permanently refit for seated shows.

32 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

A vaccine doesn't fix it, and a vaccine doesn't save all the businesses that are going to walk or suddenly save football clubs or your fave food vendor at Glastonbury or your music festival of choice.

Then you get a new favourite football club, a new fave food vendor, or a new festival. Nothing lasts for ever anyway, all these things are transient.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, efcfanwirral said:

Though to add to my previous point- I think there will be a lot of live music next summer. It might not be exactly as we remember but that then brings the question of....do you love music itself or getting smashed and getting close to people in a field 😂

Personally I'd take a whole summer of those socially distanced gigs over nothing. No different to seated gigs in my opinion- just more personal space! 

I'm sure there will be some of that proms in the park bullshit.

[steviewevie]

 

[st dan]

3 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

Seems some gyms in the liverpool area are standing firm and refusing to close:

Interesting - wonder what the fallout will be from this. Will it come from local or national level? Or will there be no action at all?

Wonder if they risk losing their license if they simply refuse to close? 

[jannybruck]

Summer is huge for tourism and hospitality and culture in the UK and there is absolutely no way the government will let another summer be effectively cancelled. Once the vaccine is starting to be rolled out they'll be opening up again, I can see this happening early spring.

Cheap, rapid testing is going to be much more crucial to indoor events like gigs getting off the ground, but for outdoor festivals the risk of transmission is low so just adding in extra hygeine steps and reminding people to distance where possible should be enough.

[eFestivals]

29 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

The same people calling for restrictions are now saying that we will learn to live with it eventually.

Bizarre.

If we’re going to learn to live with it, why not do it now? Or are you guys just kicking the can a few months with no intention of ever learning to live with it? 

because living with it now is a different thing to living with it when the vulnerable and health workers have been vaccinated.

When it's going to be having a much more minor impact, it's a very different scenario.

Remember, the govts aim all the way thru has been about protecting the NHS, and not about protecting all of the public from getting infected.

[st dan]

3 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Then you get a new favourite football club, a new fave food vendor, or a new festival. Nothing lasts for ever anyway, all these things are transient.

I find this view madness. You’d be happy and just accept ‘old life’ to be ripped apart by a virus that the high 90% of people will recover from?
Things like this are the exact reason why people won’t stand for this and won’t just roll over and let it happen, because they were actually quite happy with how things were.  If this was managed properly, then there is no need for these things to be completely eroded in a matter of months. 

[Spindles]

18 hours ago, Punksnotdead said:

One thing I've not been able to get my head around: How can they say school kids don't spread covid but students are spreading it like wildlife? Like 16-18 year olds in school are magically immune but as soon as they reach uni age they become super spreaders?

I understand that there may be some evidence that younger children don't seem to get it as often, but no-one can convince me that older kids, still in school, aren't getting it & spreading it!

The picture is pretty clear when you break the data down into date ranges:

2 months ago the volume of cases under 25 formed a smooth curve between the 10-14 and 25-29 age group.  The last few weeks have seen a massive increase.

Around 25% of the total cases in the university age range have been confirmed in the last week, about 80% of all cases have been confirmed since the return to schools and universities.

 

[eFestivals]

25 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

And then when the vaccine found in spring is only 50% effective, you’ll be calling for more restrictions until a better vaccine is found. Rinse and repeat. 

perhaps - but it's still a better situation with a vaccine working 50% than it is with no vaccine.

Waiting for a vaccine still seems a very worthwhile thing to do at the moment, because it might be much better than 50%.

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

8 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Absolute worst case there will be seated gigs with a bit more spacing by the end of next year. Live music itself isn't at risk but I can see the argument that standing gigs may be gone for a good long while, and possibly for good if "a long while" is long enough that the remaining venues all permanently refit for seated shows.

Then you get a new favourite football club, a new fave food vendor, or a new festival. Nothing lasts for ever anyway, all these things are transient.

We're all just transient, so why do anything about the virus at all?

All of the things listed about aren't just objects there people's lives, their income they are parts of communities you take them away you have the ripple effect that pans out from it is massive. 

[priest17]

15 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Absolute worst case there will be seated gigs with a bit more spacing by the end of next year. Live music itself isn't at risk but I can see the argument that standing gigs may be gone for a good long while, and possibly for good if "a long while" is long enough that the remaining venues all permanently refit for seated shows.

Then you get a new favourite football club, a new fave food vendor, or a new festival. Nothing lasts for ever anyway, all these things are transient.

We have very different attitudes to life

[DeanoL]

6 minutes ago, st dan said:

I find this view madness. You’d be happy and just accept ‘old life’ to be ripped apart by a virus that the high 90% of people will recover from?
Things like this are the exact reason why people won’t stand for this and won’t just roll over and let it happen, because they were actually quite happy with how things were.  If this was managed properly, then there is no need for these things to be completely eroded in a matter of months. 

It wasn't managed properly and we are where we are now though. And this will end, and when it does music will still exist, food vendors will still exist, festivals will still exist and football will still exist. Will your favourites be part of that? Maybe not. That's sad. But there will be other ones. 

Maybe you think I'm the mad one, but I likewise feel the same way about people who think we should just accept tens of thousands of extra deaths so Gahndi's Flip Flop can stay open.

2 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

All of the things listed about aren't just objects there people's lives, their income they are parts of communities you take them away you have the ripple effect that pans out from it is massive. 

Jobs go away too. We nearly all lose jobs at some point in our lives. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

Shielders advised to go “one step further” than their tier restriction @crazyfool1

 

Medium areas: Don’t mix indoors with other households

 

High areas: Don’t attend pubs/bars, gyms etc

 

Very High areas: Return to shielding 

[zahidf]

Dont forget though Ireland have rejected the health advice a few weeks ago as well as BJ rejecting the SAGE advice.

Goverments arent just looking at the Covid spread now. The UK Govt was never about zero covid

[Fuzzy Afro]

Just now, zahidf said:

Dont forget though Ireland have rejected the health advice a few weeks ago as well as BJ rejecting the SAGE advice.

Goverments arent just looking at the Covid spread now. The UK Govt was never about zero covid

And conversely, SAGE don’t care about the impact on society, on the economy, or on mental health.

 

SAGE only present options and their estimated impact on R. It’s for the government to decide whether those restrictions would be too impactful on society.