When will this shit end?

[thewayiam]

2 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I know a vaccine isn't guaranteed at all, but there are reasons to be hopeful. So many now seem to have just decided it's not happening when the trials are still ongoing and we've not been told otherwise.

Trust me, I get the mental health issues and neither me or my loved ones are immune to that too. I honestly don't get what the other options are at this stage, though. Just let it rip through the population and see thousands turned away from hospital, both for Covid and other illnesses? Do people want that?

Government is completely responsible for mishandling this from day one, though. I hope people don't forget that. They dicked around over summer and wasted money on a tracing system that is not fit for purpose. 

Boris has done the usual whatever is best for lining his pockets in the end. Constantly acts too late. And yes him and his team didn't have a clue and treated the whole situation different to how he told the rest of us to from the start.

[st dan]

It’s a vicious cycle - the more social and economic suffering that people encounter due to further lockdowns, this then leads to them having an ever increasing ‘negative‘ view on the virus itself, and compliance to abide by any restrictions. 

You can see this happening already on social media - whereas reaction to the initial lockdown was greeted generally well if I remember correctly. 

[Zoo Music Girl]

Just now, JoeyT said:

Careful because anytime the vaccine effort is doubted you get the inevitable "there's so many in development one will definitely work" and "there's never been this much thrown at finding / making a vaccine before" arguments thrown back at you.

Reality is that we've been "weeks away" from a vaccine for about 2 months now and it doesn't feel like the latest feeling that we'll get results back in October will come to fruition either!

I don't think anyone is throwing anything back at anyone, just trying to stay hopeful. Not sure why you're so confident we won't get one tbh. You got inside info?

This tweet pretty much sums up how I feel at the moment:

 

[zahidf]

Just now, st dan said:

It’s a vicious cycle - the more social and economic suffering that people encounter due to further lockdowns, this then leads to them having an ever increasing ‘negative‘ view on the virus itself, and compliance to abide by any restrictions. 

You can see this happening already on social media - whereas reaction to the initial lockdown was greeted generally well if I remember correctly. 

Thats why i think for 2021, there will simply so little compliance with lockdown rules that there will be no point having them ( worldwide, as well as here BTW). So the economic costs wont be worth it

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, st dan said:

It’s a vicious cycle - the more social and economic suffering that people encounter due to further lockdowns, this then leads to them having an ever increasing ‘negative‘ view on the virus itself, and compliance to abide by any restrictions. 

You can see this happening already on social media - whereas reaction to the initial lockdown was greeted generally well if I remember correctly. 

Recent YouGov polling shows the public is still overwhelmingly in favour of more restrictions though. 
 

3 minutes ago, thewayiam said:

Boris has done the usual whatever is best for lining his pockets in the end. Constantly acts too late. And yes him and his team didn't have a clue and treated the whole situation different to how he told the rest of us to from the start.

Boris is truly one of our worst ever PMs if not the worst. 

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Recent YouGov polling shows the public is still overwhelmingly in favour of more restrictions though. 
 

 

But then the compliance with track and trace 14 days quantaine is around 18%....

People say they are in favour whilst not following the rules themselves...

[thewayiam]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Recent YouGov polling shows the public is still overwhelmingly in favour of more restrictions though. 
 

Boris is truly one of our worst ever PMs if not the worst. 

Since he walked into that hospital I've had no time for him. I didn't anyway mind. So mamy things he has said and acted upon are stupid. 

[Ozanne]

Just now, zahidf said:

But then the compliance with track and trace 14 days quantaine is around 18%....

People say they are in favour whilst not following the rules themselves...

Well yes that is also happening too 😆

[st dan]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Recent YouGov polling shows the public is still overwhelmingly in favour of more restrictions though. 

Main issue with that is that the people who participate in YouGov polls are likely to abide by the restrictions as asked of them.
The spread is likely coming from the demographic who would never do survey or poll on anything, unless it was a ‘Which Biscuit Are You?’ quiz on Facebook.  

[JoeyT]

3 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I don't think anyone is throwing anything back at anyone, just trying to stay hopeful. Not sure why you're so confident we won't get one tbh. You got inside info?

I'm not saying i'm confident we won't get one but it doesn't feel like we're any closer to one than we were a few months ago.

There's conflicting reports on how effective a vaccine if / when it comes may be, there seems to be more talk on how even with a vaccine life will not return to normality as we knew it and news on those amazing tests which give results in 20 mins BOJO mentioned seems to have dried up.

Perhaps i'm feeling ultra negative this morning but nothing actually feels like it's any closer to getting us out of this mess.

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, st dan said:

Main issue with that is that the people who participate in YouGov polls are likely to abide by the restrictions as asked of them.
The spread is likely coming from the demographic who would never do survey or poll on anything, unless it was a ‘Which Biscuit Are You?’ quiz on Facebook.  

I think you are right. However the only thing I’d add is that the amount of people that do polls and comply outweighs the people that aren’t happy on social media. It’s like seeing people supportive of Corbyn before the GE online then seeing that the majority of people in the real world don’t like him. 

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 minute ago, JoeyT said:

I'm not saying i'm confident we won't get one but it doesn't feel like we're any closer to one than we were a few months ago.

There's conflicting reports on how effective a vaccine if / when it comes may be, there seems to be more talk on how even with a vaccine life will not return to normality as we knew it and news on those amazing tests which give results in 20 mins BOJO mentioned seems to have dried up.

Perhaps i'm feeling ultra negative this morning but nothing actually feels like it's any closer to getting us out of this mess.

Fair enough. It's all to play for still, I think though.

[JoeyT]

8 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Recent YouGov polling shows the public is still overwhelmingly in favour of more restrictions though. 

Genuine question - Who votes in these polls? How widely available are they? I've never seen nor do I know how to vote in them.

Same goes with the political opinion polls you link in to here?

(this isn't a jab at you by the way, genuinely intrigued)

[eFestivals]

13 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

Reality is that we've been "weeks away" from a vaccine for about 2 months now

that's just not true. For example, Trump's been claiming for a couple of months that there'll be a vaccine in the USA before the election and it's been ridiculed from all directions.

If things hit the expected timescales there should be at least one signed off - or binned as bad - before the end of the year, and quite possibly five.

[zeppelin]

2 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

Genuine question - Who votes in these polls? How widely available are they? I've never seen nor do I know how to vote in them.

Same goes with the political opinion polls you link in to here?

(this isn't a jab at you by the way, genuinely intrigued)

I do. 

You can just sign up. They send you surveys which you earn points for (often 25 or 50) and you get paid £50 when you get to 5,000.

The results you hear about are often from daily questions that anyone signed up can answer. 

They then weight the results based on demographics like age and politics to make it representative of the wider population. 

[tigger123]

41 minutes ago, MEGABOWL said:

 

I hope the confidence about a Vaccine is well placed as if it doesn’t happen in the next few months this whole thing collapses. The latter post nails how a lot of people are feeling now and exactly why it isn’t going to last. A situation where people can go to work but not do anything else or see the people they care about is unsustainable (isn’t it, the former East Germany?) because of what it does to their Mental Health. People just aren’t wired to live that way.
 

The situation isn’t helped of course by our Leaders taking the wrong decision at almost every point and destroying widespread trust in their Advice and Regulations. I’d suspect that was deliberate but detecting a Grand Plan gives them more credit than they deserve. It’s almost always just witless incompetence.

A friend of a friend works in the Civil Service and trust me there is no Grand Plan, they are making it up as they go along. An example being that when they brought in the enforced quarantine for the Greek islands, the civil servants who right the actual legislature had no idea they were being added to the quarantine list until Grant Shapps stood up in parliament to tell the House. This explains why often legislation is only published a few minutes before the law actually comes into effect, as the government announces it and then the civil service have to run around like headless chickens writing the legislation!

[zahidf]

24 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

I'm not saying i'm confident we won't get one but it doesn't feel like we're any closer to one than we were a few months ago.

There's conflicting reports on how effective a vaccine if / when it comes may be, there seems to be more talk on how even with a vaccine life will not return to normality as we knew it and news on those amazing tests which give results in 20 mins BOJO mentioned seems to have dried up.

Perhaps i'm feeling ultra negative this morning but nothing actually feels like it's any closer to getting us out of this mess.

There are super quick tests at the moment, just not accurate enough for us. I suspect that there will be better techonolgy and some will be avilable by 2021. 

 

Vaccines take time to get right. There are also treatments being tested as well. A few reasons to be optimistic in terms of treatment

[tigger123]

31 minutes ago, zahidf said:

But then the compliance with track and trace 14 days quantaine is around 18%....

People say they are in favour whilst not following the rules themselves...

This.

 

I seem to remember that around 70% of people are generally in favour of stronger restrictions, yet only 18% actually quarantine, which to me doesn't add up! Stinks of people wanting others to live under stricter restrictions, but when they themselves are actually required to stick to the rules, they don't bother!

[Fuzzy Afro]

2 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

This.

 

I seem to remember that around 70% of people are generally in favour of stronger restrictions, yet only 18% actually quarantine, which to me doesn't add up! Stinks of people wanting others to live under stricter restrictions, but when they themselves are actually required to stick to the rules, they don't bother!

People tend to agree with greater restrictions to support public health but then they don’t realise that popping round to their parents for a cup of tea is as much of a rule break as attending an illegal rave. In many ways the perceived level of dangerousness of an activity is tied to the “social hierarchy” of how that activity is perceived. So visiting your elderly parents, singing in church and attending school is seen as safe whereas attending a covid secure pub, socially distanced outdoor football crowds and BLM protests are seen as dangerous.

 

People keep predicting civil disobedience and while you see it on the small scale with anti maskers, I don’t expect it to take off on anywhere near the degree people are predicting. Instead, we’ll just see everyone get fed up of the rules and start visiting family and friends even if that is banned. 

[eFestivals]

13 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

I seem to remember that around 70% of people are generally in favour of stronger restrictions, yet only 18% actually quarantine, which to me doesn't add up!

that might be a circumstance of the moment, where the majority of current infections are amongst students/young people.

As the virus is a minor risk to them and they mostly socialise with other young people they quite possibly feel there's no huge necessity to isolate.

And remember, as an average the ones most likely to follow the rules are the ones least likely to get infected.

Edited October 13, 2020 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

people keep predicting civil disobedience and while you see it on the small scale with anti maskers, I don’t expect it to take off on anywhere near the degree people are predicting. Instead, we’ll just see everyone get fed up of the rules and start visiting family and friends even if that is banned. 

Yup, and people will get more imaginative about how they break the rules.

For example, loads of parties are being broken up in people's houses - so people will try to find more isolated locations so the party is less likely to get broken up.

 

[steviewevie]

42 minutes ago, st dan said:

Main issue with that is that the people who participate in YouGov polls are likely to abide by the restrictions as asked of them.
The spread is likely coming from the demographic who would never do survey or poll on anything, unless it was a ‘Which Biscuit Are You?’ quiz on Facebook.  

Yeah...I'm thinking focus groups are telling govt something else which is why not going full lockdown (along with economic reasons).

[DeanoL]

9 hours ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Again not true, there was all the one metre plus stuff where two metres isn't possible and things like sit next to each other or diagonally etc.. etc.. 

When you say "one metre plus stuff" - the "stuff" bit is "when you're all wearing masks" - which you're not doing in  a pub. Not saying it doesn't suck, maybe the restrictions on pubs should have been more reasonable. But the guidance was what it was, and when I read it - 2m between those in different households or 1m when wearing masks my first thought was "well there's no way pubs can open then". But pubs did open, and they got around it by just ignoring that bit and not asking if people were from the same household. Now they're being told it's law and they absolutely have to do that, and so they're fucked. Because the rules haven't actually changed. So if they say "no, this doesn't work" they'll just get back "well how did it work for the past three months then?" and they're then forced to admit they broke the rules, which again reflects badly on them.

If I'm cynical, I'd say it was done this way on purpose. 

46 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Thats why i think for 2021, there will simply so little compliance with lockdown rules that there will be no point having them ( worldwide, as well as here BTW). So the economic costs wont be worth it

 

41 minutes ago, zahidf said:

But then the compliance with track and trace 14 days quantaine is around 18%....

People say they are in favour whilst not following the rules themselves...

 

9 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

I seem to remember that around 70% of people are generally in favour of stronger restrictions, yet only 18% actually quarantine, which to me doesn't add up! Stinks of people wanting others to live under stricter restrictions, but when they themselves are actually required to stick to the rules, they don't bother!

You have to watch the maths on these. Whiles there's definitely an element of "I want more rules as long as they don't effect me" you have to bear in mind that there are loads of people, maybe close to a majority, that just are not going out. We work at home, there's no gigs or shows at the moment, and we're not going out to pubs/restaurants. If you look at how busy pubs/restaurants are, it's not that busy. Given they're all at about 50% capacity at best, it's not like people are queuing round the block to get in. There's loads of people that used to go out that just aren't. And those people are much less likely to get a track and trace to quarantine for 14 days. The only people I've had contact with in the past month is my partner who lives with me and our friend who lives alone and is in our bubble. You could maybe argue delivery people. Lots of us are living like that. Lots. And we are probably the ones in favour of harsher rules as we're already following them.

On the flip side, the people most likely to get track and trace notifications are people already breaking the rules. If you go to a party with 20 people, you're much more likely to come into contact with someone and get a notification. But you're also less likely to listen to it as you've already accepted you're happy to break the rules.

[steviewevie]

39 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

that's just not true. For example, Trump's been claiming for a couple of months that there'll be a vaccine in the USA before the election and it's been ridiculed from all directions.

If things hit the expected timescales there should be at least one signed off - or binned as bad - before the end of the year, and quite possibly five.

Yeah, back in the spring most experts were saying that would be 12 to 18 months before get a vaccine...it is only the various vaccine research groups who have got everyone excited that we could get a vaccine this year...and then governments have gone along with this.

[stuie]