When will this shit end?

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, Brownie30 said:

I like Keir Starmer. Not quite as much as @Ozanne perhaps, but enough to think he has done a good job of calling out government failings in a way that makes him harder to smear than previous Labour leaders. 

However, calling for a national lockdown in the next 24 hours WITHOUT calling for the closures of schools, particularly when the trade unions are increasingly in favour of closures, is a very weird hill to die on. If we're calling for a lockdown for January (which I agree with), this should include schools - the suggestion from Boris and Williamson that schools are safe is quite frankly insane. A friend of mine is a teacher, he engages with students from over 30 different households every day in school, and that's the absolute minimum amount IF he is able to stick within the managed year group "bubble". His partner is a radiographer in a hospital with soaring Covid cases and engages with patients regularly. They both clearly then return home to eachother, passing whatever they may have engaged with between themselves, before heading back into school and hospital the following day. How anyone can call that a "safe" situation is beyond me. 

Seems like Starmer is favouring preserving the optics of not going back on his previous comments that schools should be open rather than following the scientific advice, the trade unions and supporting teachers. I think he's wrong here.

But schools were closed in the last national lockdown. He is calling for it by implication 

 

[steviewevie]

We may start to see numbers come down with Tier4 + secondary schools shut anyway....

[jannybruck]

Just now, tigger123 said:

Sadly I don't think we will ever get to a position where lockdowns are adhered to as much as they were in March's lockdown, there is too much fatigue in the wider population and with the vaccines on the horizon, this will give people another reason to feel they can be more relaxed. 

Even if the rules are really strict, there is no way for the police to ensure the whole population is complying. People will always find ways to bend the rules.

Yes, completely agree. March was very much a "we're all in this together, save the NHS etc" and now it's a case of "can this just fucking be over and done with".

I just don't see any curfew, ban on household mixing, ban on meeting other people etc being in any way effective now. People have been doing what they like the past few months and the horse has completely bolted at this point.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

But schools were closed in the last national lockdown. He is calling for it by implication 

 

he said in an interview that he was not calling for all schools to close tomorrow...

[Brownie30]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

But schools were closed in the last national lockdown. He is calling for it by implication 

 

I understand the point, but his direct quote was "on schools, I don't want to add to the chaos that would be caused by having all schools closed tomorrow" before telling us that more school closures are inevitable at some stage. With the TEU firmly behind closures to the point of suggesting teachers effectively take strike action, I think he should be supporting the Unions and teachers more than he has done here. 

 

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

he said in an interview that he was not calling for all schools to close tomorrow...

Ah fair enough. Hadn't seen that

[Guest]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

he said in an interview that he was not calling for all schools to close tomorrow...

He's been smart though, knowing that Johnson will have to do it. Johnson can't claim he's hostage to the Unions or always wants Schools shut, Starmer can turn that round onto Johnson.

[steviewevie]

Maybe point Starmer is making that need to get rid of Tiers and have a national lockdown...could be like November, could be like March, would probably be somewhere inbetween, but needs to be national.

[Brownie30]

 

 

 

[charlierc]

I got a "Stay Home" message on Spotify just now so I think the measure has had a revival to some degree.

[Leyrulion]

20 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

No meeting outside anyone not in your households too, strict stay at home order with possible limitations on exercise too.

If they wanted to do it effectively they'd add a form onto the NHS app. You enter the reason you're leaving your house (exercise, shopping, medical) and it gives you a green 'tick' for 60-90 minutes. After that it turns red and you can't fill in the form again until the next day. 

Then shops only allow people with green ticks in and the police can check people out exercising if they want to. No green tick=fine. 

No smartphone? Then stay at home and get priority in ordering food online from the supermarket. 

Everyone working from home. In an exempt sector? Every NHS app has a unique identifier, the employer uploads your unique identifier and your hours of work and that tells the app the times which you're allowed out and it gives you a green tick.

If there was to be a stricter lockdown that's how I'd do it, knowing nothing about how the app works!

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

20 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Isn't a solicitor easily done remotely?

The work itself might be easily done remotely but if there is less work to do as a result of the lockdown you won't be on the payroll for long.

Closing things doesn't just impact that industry it impacts the industries that feed off them. 

Just like when car factories close, it's not just the job losses at the car factory that impact the area it's the trickle down.

Edited January 3, 2021 by RobertProsineckisLighter

[fraybentos1]

2 minutes ago, Leyrulion said:

If they wanted to do it effectively they'd add a form onto the NHS app. You enter the reason you're leaving your house (exercise, shopping, medical) and it gives you a green 'tick' for 60-90 minutes. After that it turns red and you can't fill in the form again until the next day. 

Then shops only allow people with green ticks in and the police can check people out exercising if they want to. No green tick=fine. 

No smartphone? Then stay at home and get priority in ordering food online from the supermarket. 

Everyone working from home. In an exempt sector? Every NHS app has a unique identifier, the employer uploads your unique identifier and your hours of work and that tells the app the times which you're allowed out and it gives you a green tick.

If there was to be a stricter lockdown that's how I'd do it, knowing nothing about how the app works!

In what world should the police care about people exercising outdoors? Does no harm to anyone.

[JoeyT]

33 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

A lockdown is partly needed now due to the Christmas relaxations which I think you wanted. You can’t say a month ago you really want to mix at Christmas and now say we shouldn’t have a lockdown. I respect the decision for your family and your work but this was said at the time too. 

You can say that. You literally can.

17 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

As a husband and father I believe it is my responsibility to keep my mother-in-law safe.

You’ve not met my mother-in-law then!

[Guest]

Just now, JoeyT said:

You can say that. You literally can.

That's not very fair on the people that were saying Christmas relaxations would lead too this and that for this one Christmas a January lockdown wasn't worth it. The point being that the people that really wanted Christmas got a version of what they wanted so now we have to have a lockdown. I think I asked the question a month ago, something like, 'how many people wanting Christmas will moan about the January lockdown?' (I'm not saying you are moaning btw).

[fraybentos1]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

That's not very fair on the people that were saying Christmas relaxations would lead too this and that for this one Christmas a January lockdown wasn't worth it. The point being that the people that really wanted Christmas got a version of what they wanted so now we have to have a lockdown. I think I asked the question a month ago, something like, 'how many people wanting Christmas will moan about the January lockdown?' (I'm not saying you are moaning btw).

You keep saying the Xmas mixing numbers haven't resulted in anything yet and that is still to come, so surely you would have been advocating a January lockdown regardless of if we could mix at xmas or not?

[funkychick2007]

3 hours ago, crazyfool1 said:

In happier news I managed to unblock my toilet earlier ..... helped by toilet duck ..... at least that shit has ended 

Proper made I laugh this did!! Must be a somerset warp sense of humour! 

[oneeye]

3 hours ago, crazyfool1 said:

In happier news I managed to unblock my toilet earlier ..... helped by toilet duck ..... at least that shit has ended 

Must have driven u round the bend

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

5 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

That's not very fair on the people that were saying Christmas relaxations would lead too this and that for this one Christmas a January lockdown wasn't worth it. The point being that the people that really wanted Christmas got a version of what they wanted so now we have to have a lockdown. I think I asked the question a month ago, something like, 'how many people wanting Christmas will moan about the January lockdown?' (I'm not saying you are moaning btw).

Are those being admitted to hospital now not likely to have contracted the infection 2-4 weeks ago though? 

[Leyrulion]

15 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

In what world should the police care about people exercising outdoors? Does no harm to anyone.

Yeah it's not about the people actually exercising but those using it as an excuse when they're not. Controls via the app would nudge people's behaviour closer to what it was in March. 

If there was to be a stricter lockdown that's one way of enforcing it. At least for 6-9 weeks when spread could be brought under control.

[zahidf]

If its an open ended lockdown, then I would be wary.

 

If its one for a couple of months to get people vaccinated, then that's fine. Every person jot infected is a life saved with vaccination

 

[StuMalinas]

23 minutes ago, Leyrulion said:

If they wanted to do it effectively they'd add a form onto the NHS app. You enter the reason you're leaving your house (exercise, shopping, medical) and it gives you a green 'tick' for 60-90 minutes. After that it turns red and you can't fill in the form again until the next day. 

Then shops only allow people with green ticks in and the police can check people out exercising if they want to. No green tick=fine. 

No smartphone? Then stay at home and get priority in ordering food online from the supermarket. 

Everyone working from home. In an exempt sector? Every NHS app has a unique identifier, the employer uploads your unique identifier and your hours of work and that tells the app the times which you're allowed out and it gives you a green tick.

If there was to be a stricter lockdown that's how I'd do it, knowing nothing about how the app works!

Didn’t realise we live in North Korea, this is so stupid

[duke88]

There’s no way they can stop people exercising, and why should they? I had zero interaction with anyone on my run this morning, no risk at all to anyone. 

[fraybentos1]

People wanting exercising outdoors monitored by the police have lost the plot.

[topmarksbri]

1 minute ago, Bdva said:

Didn’t realise we live in North Korea, this is so stupid

China where they've been draconian with their lockdown measures, including checking people are isolating have pubs and clubs open and celebrated new years as normal. If you think this is North Korea then I suggest you read up more on North Korea....