Don't vote Tory

[chatty]

1 hour ago, russycarps said:

This is complete and utter bollocks.

The undecideds were persuaded to vote leave by lies about the NHS and lies which preyed on their racist instincts.

Lies which they believed because they are thick c**ts.

 

Its not bollocks. The swing vote won the referendum. There was a single percentage difference so that will have been decided by undecided and neutral voters who swayed on the day. 

When it runs that close that is the case. Another day it could easily have swung differently. 

Sure, the Brexit campaign talked some utter drivel, used lies and propaganda but that happens at every election. Its obviously wrong but its just something that is going to happen and has to be combated against in a positive manner. 

When your sitting on the minority and you have a big proportion of voters who could be swung, what do you think is the best method. Call them thick c**ts, get their backs up and probably push them voting opposite your views.

Or to have a civil debate, point out any lies and propaganda that may be effecting their judgement and give them some pointers on why they should either change their mind or move in the direction you think best? 

Unfortunately, you obviously think the former as do many left/central leaning people and the use of that is a factor that has lost just about every election for that political spectrum for 15 years. 

Carry on though,  but unless people change their method of going about political debate then your gonna be in for some long years of frustration cause the government has got the divide and conquor tactic down to a t at this point. 

Next time your having a friendly debate call whoever your debating with a c**t because of it and see how quickly they get their backs up and becone resolute in their argument. 

Its the worst and least effective debating technique there is. 

Edited April 19, 2017 by chatty

[The Placid Casual]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I had a pop at Russy too. You & Russy are both the same on this - blaming people, but offering fuck all to change anything.

I've known for 30 years that (imo) the UK electorate is as thick as pigshit, but knowing they're as thick as pigshit doesn't create the better world I'd like.

We are what we are, and that means there's also limits to how much we'll change (in a short-ish amount of time, anyway).

The Corbynite "utopia or nothing" attitude is at least as fucking stupid as as anything which might be blamed on brexit voters or tory voters, the old, or the young.

Matt42 summed up my opinions on the topic so I have nothing to add. I just thought I'd add a throwaway comment in what is really a thread someone used to make a joke. If that makes me seem ignorant to the situation then so be it.

 

[clarkete]

52 minutes ago, Lad said:

So they were the only news sources?

No, of course in the same camp there was the Sun, Star, Times and Telegraph.

Plus whatever Aaron Banks gets for his big bag of money, in terms of the folks working in Bristol offices putting out and supporting stories on social media.

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, chatty said:

Sure, the Brexit campaign talked some utter drivel, used lies and propaganda but that happens at every election. Its obviously wrong but its just something that is going to happen and has to be combated against in a positive manner. 

You're spot on.

Instead from Corbyn we got half-hearted, refusing to be involved in TV debates (what was that you said yesterday, mr hypocrite Jezza? ), and then going on holiday during the most important political campaign of his time as leader.

But it's all the fault of thick racists?

[Lad]

1 minute ago, clarkete said:

No, of course in the same camp there was the Sun, Star, Times and Telegraph.

Plus whatever Aaron Banks gets for his big bag of money, in terms of the folks working in Bristol offices putting out and supporting stories on social media.

Get out of the sack and have a look around.Plenty of propaganda more to your liking you must have missed.

[The Placid Casual]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

You're spot on.

Instead from Corbyn we got half-hearted, refusing to be involved in TV debates (what was that you said yesterday, mr hypocrite Jezza? ), and then going on holiday during the most important political campaign of his time as leader.

But it's all the fault of thick racists?

Corbyn was completely useless. I didn't vote him in at the time but I'm still very disappointed by him. I thought he would at least put up a decent fight to prevent Brexit. Labour needs a leader. Until we have one I believe in I'll vote for my own self interests (anyone care to hazard a guess? ).

[russycarps]

Just now, Scruffylovemonster said:

True, but you ain't gonna change the minds of the ones who may vote differently in future by just insulting them. You just make them more hard-line Tory. 

how do you change the mindset of the population of the country that invented capitalism? It's laughable to think that this cesspit will ever embrace left leaning politics. 

I spent almost 20 years trying. The result? Brexit and a tory government that will have a 200 seat majority in a few weeks time.

 

[Glastocat]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

You're spot on.

Instead from Corbyn we got half-hearted, refusing to be involved in TV debates (what was that you said yesterday, mr hypocrite Jezza? ), and then going on holiday during the most important political campaign of his time as leader.

But it's all the fault of thick racists?

Funnily enough if Corbyn had stuck to his guns and voted for Brexit, he could now of used it to try and get some extra votes from people who would probably not agree with him on much else.Instead he looked weak as he changed his mind and followed up with some utterly piss poor efforts at campaigning.

Sold out on his morals and lost his chance to pick up the Brexit vote. A proper lose lose decision.

[Lad]

3 minutes ago, russycarps said:

how do you change the mindset of the population of the country that invented capitalism? It's laughable to think that this cesspit will ever embrace left leaning politics. 

I spent almost 20 years trying. The result? Brexit and a tory government that will have a 200 seat majority in a few weeks time.

 

Fuck having to listen to your prattle for 20 years.No wonder all your dreams have been smashed.

[Sasperella]

 

21 hours ago, timmy tugboat said:

Any pro hard Brexit left wing parties?

 

5 hours ago, Zac Quinn said:

that wouldn't make any sense 

Actually yes..... http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/EU My friend in Newcastle. I think he was hoping for a post-BREXIT socialist utopia. 

[clarkete]

25 minutes ago, Lad said:

Get out of the sack and have a look around.Plenty of propaganda more to your liking you must have missed.

I've looked around more than most, hence my first comment on this thread was to respond to that tired old narrative that one side was using scare tactics, when there was plenty of nonsense spouted from many sources.

[Glastocat]

1 minute ago, clarkete said:

I've looked around more than most, hence my first comment on this thread was to respond to that tired old narrative that one side was using scare tactics, when there was plenty of nonsense spouted from many sources.

I didn't say just one side was using scare tactics. My point was it was the wrong tactics for the remain campaign to use.

On the flip side these tactics were the best hope for the leave campaigners to get the votes they needed and imo the leave campaign played straight into their hands.

[priest17]

1 hour ago, russycarps said:

 

I spent almost 20 years trying. The result? Brexit and a tory government that will have a 200 seat majority in a few weeks time.

 

So this is all your fault? Poor effort man.

I'm joking obviously but I'm 25 and looking ahead trying to be political seems so daunting, the last 5 years has battered me. Doesn't seem to be any point being left now might as well just resign to absolute shit and get pissed in spoons till Glastonbury's back.

I'm aware how pathetic that makes me sound ahah. 

[FuzzyDunlop]

2 hours ago, Matt42 said:

I hate to go all Russel brand on you russy but I think you go about this the wrong way. 

I agree that there are serious issues with racial prejudice and uneducation in the voting public. But calling them racist and thick bastards is the easiest way to discredit them. 

The reason why I struggle to relate to the majority of the left right now is we've given up discussing with people. Anyone who disagrees with us is just a racist, homophobic bastard etc, and we think hurling insults at them will make them see the error of their ways

i know this is fully against your nature but you need to talk civilly with people who disagree with you. Not everyone who voted Brexit, trump, Tory etc is evil. They are real people who feel that these were the right decisions to make.

you're creating the monsters that you hate, by shunning them when they disclose their opinions. So they discuss them where they know is safest... the voting booth

Probably the best post I've read on this forum for a while.

[themuel]

This thread needs to stay on the front page. 

[reflekting]

I think the key to improving things from a socialist perspective is educating people when they're young. I'd suggest people are much less keen to embrace a working class persona than their parents. Partly this is driven by media, partly by the parents of the young who were fortunate enough to live in an era of aspiration where people were entitled to improve their lives through their own decision making and self interest (my opinion). I don't think there is a quick fix to this, but making the young politically engaged and informed would go a great deal in improving life for everyone. 

[Uh-Oh!]

Voting Tory, get over it

[CaledonianGonzo]

* whiny nerd voice *

"Voting Tory, get over it."

[Mr.Tease]

6 hours ago, chatty said:

Ah the good old, dont agree with me and ill call you a bunch of names argument that has proven to be so brilliant. 

Honestly, I think the left probably pushed Brexit into happening with those tactics. It clearly had a lot of undecided voters but instead of inviting them into civil debate and showing them why they should vote against a large portion just abused them till they got their backs up and voted for leaving. 

Its the worst method of debate out there because for one you dont nake any points to change their mind and secondly by abusing people you just make them feel more rightful in their choice and stick to their guns. 

Worst thing in recent elections is that people cant dind any middle ground. Its either everyone falls on one side or the other without giving anything at all to the other side. Politics cant work like that, it needs converstauon, real debate and willingness to compromise to find neutral ground on many points of both sides of the argument. 

Its obviously not all people on the left and obviously the right do it as well but calling people racists, thicketc because you dont agree is thwarting your own argument and makes you look a little pathetic at the same time. 

Funny thing is both sides of the spectrum whinge at the other side for doing it whilst continuing to do it themselves. Its bizarre and why the country is in political ruin. 

Its also easy to exploit which has been proven time and again over many decades. 

Sorry but the argument that it's people who voted against brexit that are to blame for brexit is complete cobblers that some on the media tried to push since the outcome. The people who voted brexit are the reason for brexit- that's it! 

[Lad]

6 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Sorry but the argument that it's people who voted against brexit that are to blame for brexit is complete cobblers that some on the media tried to push since the outcome. The people who voted brexit are the reason for brexit- that's it! 

Isn't the poster talking about the levels of animosity rather than the bleedin obvious of who voted what?It was about shovelling out hate and being surprised that it didn't work on the undecided.

[Mr.Tease]

3 minutes ago, Lad said:

Isn't the poster talking about the levels of animosity rather than the bleedin obvious of who voted what?It was about shovelling out hate and being surprised that it didn't work on the undecided.

Again it boils down to blaming people who didn't vote for it for those people who did vote for it. The people who voted for it are 100% responsible. No one made them do anything 

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, Mr.Tease said:

No one made them do anything

that's true, but what some people might do might alter the course of events for others.

Calling someone stupid or racist isn't likely to win them over to your side.

[Lad]

4 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Again it boils down to blaming people who didn't vote for it for those people who did vote for it. The people who voted for it are 100% responsible. No one made them do anything 

Yep we know that but that wasn't the point.It was about,imo,of using the tactics of hate to fight the GE.Its often counter productive.

[Alex DeLarge]

4 hours ago, chatty said:

When your sitting on the minority and you have a big proportion of voters who could be swung, what do you think is the best method. Call them thick c**ts, get their backs up and probably push them voting opposite your views.

Or to have a civil debate, point out any lies and propaganda that may be effecting their judgement and give them some pointers on why they should either change their mind or move in the direction you think best? 

I agree with some of your points, but this one is an argument that many people bring up and it's basically just nonsense to me. 

Insults are flung around a lot by a lot of people on the political spectrum, I've seen remain voters called traitors, enemies of the people, elitist and then stupid insults like cucks as well. If a couple of morons using insults is enough to sway your vote, you need to re-examine your argument, I didn't let Jo Cox's death sour my view of every single leave voter in the country.

[Nobody Interesting]

http://www.reasonstovotetory.uk/