When will this shit end?

[MrBarry465]

8 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

No it isn't... It isn't at all...  

This isn't December or March 2020...

We have more room at the moment to wait and see on numbers.  This isn't like the previous waves where you have to operate totally on fear and before you see an issue it has drowned you.  The vaccines buy us a window of analysis and time.  We can analysis more.  We have too.  Its the whole point of the review points and roadmap.

The risks we took and got stung by in the past aren't the same problems as we face today.   

They've attempted 'wait and see' on other occasions and it failed miserably.

This won't be one of them.

The phrase Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." 

Edited June 14, 2021 by MrBarry465

[JoeyT]

Timely.

 

[tigger123]

3 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

They've attempted 'wait and see' on other occasions and it failed miserably.

This won't be one of them.

The phrase Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." 

We're not doing the same thing though, we have mass vaccination now, which we didn't have after wave 1 or 2

[MrBarry465]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

Its like you have zero understanding on what the roadmap is...  Its all about wait and see you have to realise...

Its exactly why they are proposing a 2 to 4 week delay (I presume)...  To wait and see and jab more.

Using your mindset you would at this point reverse if you felt the same parameters of previous waves applied.

What I think is stupid is taking a 'oh lets just give it a go and open now despite the fact we have tens of millions not vaccinated and a rapidly spreading new variant around'.

They've decided to get ahead of it and not open now and take a pro active approach for once.

I appluad them on this.

[MrBarry465]

1 minute ago, tigger123 said:

We're not doing the same thing though, we have mass vaccination now, which we didn't have after wave 1 or 2

And we have a lot of people with only 1 jab or none.

It's like we are going round the houses now.

[zahidf]

 

Hancock facing down the angry tory backbenchers

 

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Data not dates seems to have become - when I am not frightened anymore then we will set a date.

only goes one way: excuse to keep restrictions in place and not to loosen them

[efcfanwirral]

11 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Perfect timing for the kids!

Yeah I'm not convinced we should be giving kids the new technology. Who really knows what would happen long term without a time machine? As there are millions of a traditional one it would probably make sense to use it or at the very least give the choice 

Edited June 14, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[Kusy]

via Guardian:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/992741/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_23.pdf

[Havors]

2 minutes ago, Kusy said:

via Guardian:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/992741/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_23.pdf

Seems to be doing exactly what was predicted and wanted....  Yet that is now no longer good enough it seems? 

[efcfanwirral]

6 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

My kids want an education and travel.  If the alternative is constantly closing schools, isolating kids and imposing restrictions on the schools then I think we have little choice to take the extremely small risk of any side effects.

You have to trust the regulators.  The Americans, French, Germans and the UK have deemed it safe and effective.

yeah obviously if novavax doesn't come in but if that's there as well surely its more ethical? Not my problem either way. Would've preferred novavax myself due to family autoimmune issues but doesn't look like I'll be allowed to wait for it! Edit - that's based on my worries about my own immune system reaction not the vaccine itself- i know I've handled the traditional ones recently 

Edited June 14, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[efcfanwirral]

4 minutes ago, Havors said:

Seems to be doing exactly what was predicted and wanted....  Yet that is now no longer good enough it seems? 

I think they expected transmission to be cut more. Makes sense the transmission has changed from the early estimates/boasts of nearer 80% because we were in full on lockdown then 

Edited June 14, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[steviewevie]

32 minutes ago, Havors said:

An exit wave is inevitable unless you never exit, you are very mistaken. 

surely an exit wave with more people fully vaccinated is better?

[andyrhodes24]

23 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I keep coming back to the point that I can't find a single graph or piece of evidence which justifies continuing lockdown.

It all seems to be based around a fear that it all might go south.

So its not dates or data...  its just fear it seems...     It worries me at what point does the fear go away and we can get back to data ?  

It's all based on 'what if's' in terms of rising numbers of hospitalisations but the graphs don't lie, hospitalisations are flat even if cases are going up (including the lag)

4 minutes ago, Havors said:

Seems to be doing exactly what was predicted and wanted....  Yet that is now no longer good enough it seems? 

Pfizer reducing hospitalisations by 75-85% after one jab is staggering. If that's not good enough I don't know what is

[BobWillis2]

10 minutes ago, Kusy said:

via Guardian:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/992741/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_23.pdf

70% effective against symptomatic disease after 1 dose? 
What the fuck are we delaying for? 

[Gacheezbo]

3 events and a festival for myself now going to be cancelled, mid twenties and another summer in the not-festival-mud.

 

 

[MrBarry465]

1 minute ago, Gacheezbo said:

3 events and a festival for myself now going to be cancelled, mid twenties and another summer in the not-festival-mud.

 

 

Is it certain that all festivals in July will get cancelled? They might try to move back to August....

[Matt42]

2 minutes ago, Gacheezbo said:

3 events and a festival for myself now going to be cancelled, mid twenties and another summer in the not-festival-mud.

 

 

Latitude and R&L are in trouble.

[DeanoL]

 

On 6/12/2021 at 8:44 PM, Barry Fish said:

Its exactly this...

I mentioned my daughters primary school leaving party.  Its huge for her but tiny in the grand scheme.  So people say she has to miss out on it.  Easy for them - devastating for her.  She obviously isn't the only one.

I think a lot about the kids when it comes to the rules.  They have missed the most I would say and people keep saying they will get over it.  My daughter has missed her 10th Birthday party, 11th Birthday party, school leaving party (now), school residential, sports days, school plays and more.

These are the bedrock of any childhood memories - all toast. 

The worse some people had was a 6 month paid holiday on furlough.  

Its not hurting everyone the same way.

The thing is, others would look at you that have lost friends and family to this, and see the lost memories of your daughter the same way you see those on furlough. That you've had it easy and should count your blessings.

You've not. It's been shit for everyone.

It was kind of weird catching up over the weekend posts this morning - seeing people arguing over how avoidable deaths are acceptable then getting upset (understandably, it was horrific) about what happened at the football. 

People should bear in mind that every one of those avoidable deaths that they're saying are acceptable will have friends and family - they could easily be someone you know, someone close to you, someone playing sport on tele, all sorts of people. And those arguments aren't even necessarily wrong - we're not going to hit zero COVID, and we do face potentially more death elsewhere if the economic damage gets worse.

But maybe people could ease off the argument that the deaths are acceptable just because they're fed up of lockdown? 

Edited June 14, 2021 by DeanoL

[zahidf]

 

[MrBarry465]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

 

The thing is, others would look at you that have lost friends and family to this, and see the lost memories of your daughter the same way you see those on furlough. That you've had it easy and should count your blessings.

You've not. It's been shit for everyone.

It was kind of weird catching up over the weekend posts this morning - seeing people arguing over how avoidable deaths are acceptable then getting (understandably, it was horrific) about what happened at the football. 

People should bear in mind that every one of those avoidable deaths that they're saying are acceptable will have friends and family - they could easily be someone you know, someone close to you, someone playing sport on tele, all sorts of people. And those arguments aren't even necessarily wrong - we're not going to hit zero COVID, and we do face potentially more death elsewhere if the economic damage gets worse.

But maybe people could ease off the argument that the deaths are acceptable just because they're fed up of lockdown? 

Bravo!

[DeanoL]

On 6/12/2021 at 8:45 AM, zahidf said:

They said once the most vulnerable have been offered two jabs, we can get rid of these ridiculous restrictions. If they are moving the goalposts, some of us aren't just going to accept it. And we shouldn't.

So what are you going to do, exactly? Are you actually going to participate in full-on civil disobedience? Or are you just assuming other people will do that bit and you're just going to go Tesco without a mask?

I see a lot of talk like this but very little that actually looks like it'll become action.

[andyrhodes24]

Just now, Matt42 said:

Latitude and R&L are in trouble.

I agree it's not looking good. It begs the question of what the point of the pilot events was if they're not going to let events like Latitude, R&L and Creamfields go ahead with mass testing. They're literally organised by the same people organising the pilot events

[jannybruck]

3 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

Is it certain that all festivals in July will get cancelled? They might try to move back to August....

Just impossible logistically for a lot of them to do that, unfortunately. Lots of tangled supply chains, artist booking clashes, refund processing, site/licensing issues – just so much easier to cancel.

Edited June 14, 2021 by jannybruck

[Gacheezbo]

5 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

Is it certain that all festivals in July will get cancelled? They might try to move back to August....

Pretty sure a festival can't push it's dates back a couple weeks at such late notice, logistically would be a nightmare

 

5 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Latitude and R&L are in trouble.

Latitude for sure, R&L might scrape in

Edited June 14, 2021 by Gacheezbo