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When will this shit end?


Chrisp1986

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Just a final point re the WFH debate (which has been good IMO and good to see everyone's points of view)

I've just spoke to the Managing Director of my firm and we discussed this very subject.

Although we've not seen a direct hit in terms of fees there has been a significant uptick in complaints and negligence claims during the last year in comparison to previous years. The extra burden placed on staff who are coming in to the office to do let's say the less glamorous jobs that would usually be shared amongst a team has had a negative impact on that group of staff and in turn demotivates etc.

So yes, although not impacting the firm immensely at the current time these sort of things will do further down the line as it'll affect both the quality and quantity of work coming in.

 

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20 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

Just a final point re the WFH debate (which has been good IMO and good to see everyone's points of view)

I've just spoke to the Managing Director of my firm and we discussed this very subject.

Although we've not seen a direct hit in terms of fees there has been a significant uptick in complaints and negligence claims during the last year in comparison to previous years. The extra burden placed on staff who are coming in to the office to do let's say the less glamorous jobs that would usually be shared amongst a team has had a negative impact on that group of staff and in turn demotivates etc.

So yes, although not impacting the firm immensely at the current time these sort of things will do further down the line as it'll affect both the quality and quantity of work coming in.

 

Its getting a bit interesting where I work as some people have been going in throughout (maintenance staff, catering etc) and some half working from home and half in office and some 100% working from home.

I had a debate with my team leader who announced that she won't be returning to working full time in the office and I pushed her a little on why.  She is in her mid-20's, lives 15 mins from our place of work, has no children or any other reason that makes working from home easier.  She had no answer for me....funnily enough one of my friends works with her boyfriend and through that connection I heard it was because she prefers to lie in bed till 5 to 9 and sit in her pyjamas all day etc, although obviously she wouldn't admit that to me!

Edited by gooner1990
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3 minutes ago, gooner1990 said:

Its getting a bit interesting where I work as some people have been going in throughout (maintenance staff, catering etc) and some half working from home and half in office and some 100% working from home.

I had a debate with my team leader who announced that she won't be returning to working full time in the office and I pushed her a little on why.  She is in her mid-20's, lives 15 mins from our place of work, has no children or any other reason that makes working from home easier.  She had no answer for me....funnily enough one of my friends works with her boyfriend and through that connection I heard it was because she prefers to lie in bed till 5 to 9 and sit in her pyjamas all day etc, although obviously she wouldn't admit that to me!

Maybe she’s just happier working from home? She might also have some anxiety that you don’t of that means WFH is more beneficial for her. Just because you can’t see her reasons for it doesn’t mean they aren’t there.

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Just now, Ozanne said:

Maybe she’s just happier working from home? She might also have some anxiety that you don’t of that means WFH is more beneficial for her. Just because you can’t see her reasons for it doesn’t mean they aren’t there.

load of tosh mate, she's been working at the college fine for 2 years and there is no social anxiety there whatsoever....like most people I think its because they can get away with doing less at home.

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1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Maybe she’s just happier working from home? She might also have some anxiety that you don’t of that means WFH is more beneficial for her. Just because you can’t see her reasons for it doesn’t mean they aren’t there.

It's not just about the individual though is it? You prefer wfh we get that but you make claims like 'I'm more productive when working here' which I find hard to believe as you have already made 4 posts on here today and it's 10am.

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2 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

It's not just about the individual though is it? You prefer wfh we get that but you make claims like 'I'm more productive when working here' which I find hard to believe as you have already made 4 posts on here today and it's 10am.

What I don't get is why people who were rarely in meetings before COVID/WFH are now constantly on teams calls and unavalible. 

I've heard other managers who are in the office (when I have been) complaning that they can never get hold of certain people and I struggle with it too.

Whereas pre COVID/WFH I could speak to someone quickly in the office about something I now have to book in an appointment with them for a MS Teams call which sometimes is hours later.

Ridiculous. 

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3 minutes ago, mazola said:

Surely the argument that people work just as hard from home is negated by the fact that some of you manage to spend all day on here posting

It does seem rather suspicious I agree...

There are upsides and downsides to wfh, it isn't one sided. I hope we go to a blended model in future. Personally I don't see how people can't miss a bit of social interaction in the office at time which you don\t get when wfh.

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8 minutes ago, gooner1990 said:

load of tosh mate, she's been working at the college fine for 2 years and there is no social anxiety there whatsoever....like most people I think its because they can get away with doing less at home.

It might be a load of tosh but it might not be. That’s the point, you don’t know what she might be going through in her head. We don’t know if someone is going through anxiety.

She should be given that choice to stay working remotely if she wants to and her work isn’t suffering as should you and everyone else that can work from home in your company. 

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7 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Contracting has taken a battering with the new IR35 reforms and the pandemic but its now rebounding - in the IT sector anyway.

Lots of decent outside gigs appearing now as well.  I think with a lot of contractors having jumped ship into perm the market is less saturated and the pick up in the economy and demand for skills - contracting might be okay going forward.

Only if they up the day rate considerably to offset the tax I think. 

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32 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

It's not just about the individual though is it? You prefer wfh we get that but you make claims like 'I'm more productive when working here' which I find hard to believe as you have already made 4 posts on here today and it's 10am.

 

27 minutes ago, mazola said:

Surely the argument that people work just as hard from home is negated by the fact that some of you manage to spend all day on here posting

 

22 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

It does seem rather suspicious I agree...

There are upsides and downsides to wfh, it isn't one sided. I hope we go to a blended model in future. Personally I don't see how people can't miss a bit of social interaction in the office at time which you don\t get when wfh.

 

20 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

In our office everyone just stands round all day talking about nothing in particular whilst having a cup of tea...much rather be at home so I can argue with people on here instead.

Replying to you all at once here as my point intersects all of yours! For some it's about output not spending every second of the day working. You don't do that in an office but sometimes it still takes 8 hours to get through like 4-5 hours of work with all the ridiculous distractions. I get that some like socialising but between that and meetings are an issue but I remember always leaving the office feeling like I hadn't actually done enough work that day, but with the commute staying on past that time wasn't really an appealing option 

And that's another point- it could be more flexible at home for some, maybe not everything has to be done between 9 and 6 anymore with a trusting boss?

Edited by efcfanwirral
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2 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

You know - is that such a bad thing ?   As long as from 9 onwards the work is being done and she is happy - as a manager I couldn't care less ?   In thank I don't really care if the work is done at 9 in the morning or 10pm as long as its done.  Presuming that didn't impact anyone else.

Obviously would need to appropriately dressed for any virtual meetings etc

Do funky Zoom filters count!?

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17 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Contracting has taken a battering with the new IR35 reforms and the pandemic but its now rebounding - in the IT sector anyway.

Lots of decent outside gigs appearing now as well.  I think with a lot of contractors having jumped ship into perm the market is less saturated and the pick up in the economy and demand for skills - contracting might be okay going forward.

I'm finding freelance to be working really well by splitting my risk between multiple clients, suits my desire not to be "managed" while actually proving more secure than having one employer. 

I always found the idea of working almost full time for a company but being a contractor very odd just because of how one sided it sounded - not really the time to work for other clients but no security either. I assume IR35 was created to screw people financially? 

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6 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

You know - is that such a bad thing ?   As long as from 9 onwards the work is being done and she is happy - as a manager I couldn't care less ?   In thank I don't really care if the work is done at 9 in the morning or 10pm as long as its done.  Presuming that didn't impact anyone else.

Obviously would need to appropriately dressed for any virtual meetings etc

I'm shocking in mornings, but concentration builds up incredibly well to a peak in the 3-7 time period for some reason, sometimes even later if I'm into it. Everyone's different which the traditional way ignores but people are finding out now. Its fascinating 

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6 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

 

 

 

Replying to you all at once here as my point intersects all of yours! For some it's about output not spending every second of the day working. You don't do that in an office but sometimes it still takes 8 hours to get through like 4-5 hours of work with all the ridiculous distractions. I get that some like socialising but between that and meetings are an issue but I remember always leaving the office feeling like I hadn't actually done enough work that day, but with the commute staying on past that time wasn't really an appealing option 

And that's another point- it could be more flexible at home for some, maybe not everything has to be done between 9 and 6 anymore with a trusting boss?

I can't tell everyone's work output obviously. But I can see how much people post here at all hours of the day. Sometimes there are distractions in the office but no more than in most homes surely? Especially if you have kids/ a pet whatever. 

As I said, there are upsides to it but someone who loves working from home saying they're more productive there shouldn't be taken at face value. A balance could work for all.

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On the productivity question, it really depends what kind of work you do as well. A lot of my job involves proofreading/editing so I do find that a lot easier to do from home as the office can be crazy noisy. The team at the main place I work are very chatty and I often have to put headphones in just to hear myself think. That said I do miss the social element to a degree too. I'm freelance so it's up to me really but I imagine eventually I will go back to two days in, two days out at my main place of employment as that suited me well. The other day I do various things for other clients, all home-based at the moment which gives me a lot of flexibility around working hours etc. 

The main thing putting me off going back to work is the commute. It's not long but it's a very grim, very packed Tube that I used to dread pre Covid. Hoping that if more people switch to a hybrid model it will take the pressure off the transport network at peak times too.

Everyone is different when it comes to this. Some people hate working from home, some people love it. Going forward I think it will be a discussion employers will have to have more when recruiting.

The main place I work is not reopening all its offices so I think they will actively be encouraging more remote working as there just won't be the space! It's hot desking anyway and I have had days where I couldn't find anywhere to sit.

 

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54 minutes ago, gooner1990 said:

Its getting a bit interesting where I work as some people have been going in throughout (maintenance staff, catering etc) and some half working from home and half in office and some 100% working from home.

I had a debate with my team leader who announced that she won't be returning to working full time in the office and I pushed her a little on why.  She is in her mid-20's, lives 15 mins from our place of work, has no children or any other reason that makes working from home easier.  She had no answer for me....funnily enough one of my friends works with her boyfriend and through that connection I heard it was because she prefers to lie in bed till 5 to 9 and sit in her pyjamas all day etc, although obviously she wouldn't admit that to me!

She doesn't want to go through the bullshit of commuting and being a bum on a seat.  Fair play to her.  Nor do I.  I have a child now, but I didn't when I started remote work about 10 years ago.

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3 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

She doesn't want to go through the bullshit of commuting and being a bum on a seat.  Fair play to her.  Nor do I.  I have a child now, but I didn't when I started remote work about 10 years ago.

I agree. If the work is getting done to a good standard and the employee is happier then what’s the issue? As long as everyone that can that option has it then great!

I personally found the office quite a distraction for a few different reasons which is part of why I like WFH. 

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I do miss ‘chatting shit’ with work colleagues in the office though. Talking about last nights football, news event etc. That type of release you can’t get WFH, and the only interaction you get is of a more serious nature, on calls and meetings etc.
So I feel I do lack from that social side in my current set up. 

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6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I agree. If the work is getting done to a good standard and the employee is happier then what’s the issue? As long as everyone that can that option has it then great!

I personally found the office quite a distraction for a few different reasons which is part of why I like WFH. 

Yes we get it, you want to work from home. 

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