When will this shit end?

[DeanoL]

30 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

If grandparents aren't allowed to hug their grandkids (who they might not have seen for a year) after 2 doses then when exactly are they. 

When the other people that those kids will be in contact with so could potentially transmit it to are vaccinated. Grandparent vaccinated but carrying COVID, passes to kid who has no symptoms but is now carrying it, passes it to a teacher at school.

I'm not really arguing your central point - I actually think it's fine, the risks are low enough, people can use their own judgement. 

But I don't get this "it's as safe now as it'll ever be" argument. No it won't. It clearly won't. It'll quite obviously be safer when everyone is vaccinated in three months time.

Like, genuinely, I don't understand if you and some others on here just fundamentally don't understand that vaccinated people and kids can still spread it, or if you're just ignoring the fact because it doesn't fit with what you want to believe?

[Ozanne]

I can’t remember if this was shared yesterday but this is great news for our posters in the States!

 

[steviewevie]

Just now, MEGABOWL said:

That’s a long time. My kids haven’t seen my Wife’s parents since Christmas 19. Everyone has to start making their own assessments because they have to balance everything else against Covid, and having had two jabs must weigh into that in a very positive, confidence-building way.

Yeah, it is a long time. We were all set to go down in August and then there was a rise of cases in Manchester and panic set in and she told me not to come down. She was saying come down when it improves and I was telling her it may not improve for a long time...but she wouldn't listen to her wise son. One problem is she lives in a block of flats facing the sea full of old people, and she was all anxious that Manchester was a plague city and I would bring it down and kill them all. Anyway, zoom calls have been a blessing, and will see her in May, she wants to have 2nd jab first though.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I can’t remember if this was shared yesterday but this is great news for our posters in the States!

 

yeah, they need to get jabbing...cases on the rise there....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56572452

[Simsy]

32 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

I genuinely worry about the lack of people’s ability to assess risk.

 

FFS you’ve got posters who are healthy and in their 20s and 30s claiming they’re too scared to meet friends outside. That is an absolutely bizarre take. 

Problem is some people's lack of ability to assess risk is at the other end of the spectrum. My father in law (70s, clinically vulnerable) kept trying to hug me & my husband on the occasions we saw him last year, and every time we reminded him not to he said "but I know you don't have it". How do you know that? I don't know that! Even when we'd just flown back from India on packed plane.

There are extremes on both sides.

[mcshed]

My mum is in her 70s and we've seen her a fair amount as she lives on her own and she helps out with the kids so has bubbled up. I still don't hug her though, we're not bloody continentals last time I gave her a hug was probably my dad's funeral which was over a decade ago. 

She has hugged the grandkids since having her jab though.

[efcfanwirral]

3 minutes ago, MEGABOWL said:

Why should there be a huge problem? Don’t they work?

There's always talk about them not working on everyone, so even a handful of deaths and there will be a big decision to make. Do you assume all is ok or do you worry they haven't worked as well as expected in the real world? It depends on public opinion at that point and i think the public will panic - and that's where talk of winter restrictions will have come from. Not lockdown but not normality either (as if having to show an app to get in anywhere is normality but I mean beyond that) 

Their only full real world test of the vaccines here is autumn winter when these things normally spread. Until then we can't know for sure - the rollout and reopening  coincides with the time it dropped last year anyway. I'm not saying they don't work, but we have been repeatedly told that they will not work on some people and only a small ish number would be needed to get the general nerves going 

It seems almost religious sacrilege to even discuss that they're not a 100% solution to the virus...

[fraybentos1]

13 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

When the other people that those kids will be in contact with so could potentially transmit it to are vaccinated. Grandparent vaccinated but carrying COVID, passes to kid who has no symptoms but is now carrying it, passes it to a teacher at school.

I'm not really arguing your central point - I actually think it's fine, the risks are low enough, people can use their own judgement. 

But I don't get this "it's as safe now as it'll ever be" argument. No it won't. It clearly won't. It'll quite obviously be safer when everyone is vaccinated in three months time.

Like, genuinely, I don't understand if you and some others on here just fundamentally don't understand that vaccinated people and kids can still spread it, or if you're just ignoring the fact because it doesn't fit with what you want to believe?

Vaccinated people can still spread it but they're A) way way less likely to and B)extremely well protected themselves C) old and might not have long left 

There is always going to be some element of risk. That risk will keep diminishing but even now it is at low levels to people who have both doses.

[vintagelaureate]

Just now, fraybentos1 said:

C) old and might not have long left 

That's worrying as I'm only in my mid thirties. 😁 

[vintagelaureate]

The spread/behaviour of others is the thing that will keep me on my toes. I am lucky that I have had both doses (my own health issues) but it's my daughter I worry about. 

There isn't any real protection for vulnerable children. My daughter has on and off been pretty much at home since last March yet has still been hospitalised twice with generic (non Covid) viruses that must have been passed on through myself, my wife or my school age daughter.

We have no extended family so that isn't a worry and I have only seen one friend once since March last year, but it's a hard year. I have to pin some hope on the vaccine working well otherwise there would be no light at the end of the tunnel for us.

 

[JoeyT]

BOOM

 

[DeanoL]

4 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Vaccinated people can still spread it but they're A) way way less likely to and B)extremely well protected themselves C) old and might not have long left 

There is always going to be some element of risk. That risk will keep diminishing but even now it is at low levels to people who have both doses.

Again, it's not the risk to the people that have had both doses, it's the risk to the people they might spread it to. This risk gets a lot lower when those people are vaccinated to.

Now yes, you still need to weigh up that risk and consider if, especially when people might not have long left, if things like hugs and stuff are now worth it. They probably are.

But if you're justifying it to yourself by saying "it's as safe now as it'll ever be" then that's not true. It'll be loads safer in a few months. Make a personal judgement based on weighing up the risk yourself absolutely, but don't lie to yourself about what those risks are.

[stuie]

28 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

There's going to be a HUGE problem when people start dying from it in autumn. The country won't cope. They've been told its a magic cure and will bring their "freedom". 

It must hurt to be this pessimistic.

Even though vaccines ‘might not work for everyone’ there is evidence of reduction in transmission. Add those two factors together and you don’t end up with a massive death toll in Autumn. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

2 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

BOOM

 

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, vintagelaureate said:

The spread/behaviour of others is the thing that will keep me on my toes. I am lucky that I have had both doses (my own health issues) but it's my daughter I worry about. 

There isn't any real protection for vulnerable children. My daughter has on and off been pretty much at home since last March yet has still been hospitalised twice with generic (non Covid) viruses that must have been passed on through myself, my wife or my school age daughter.

We have no extended family so that isn't a worry and I have only seen one friend once since March last year, but it's a hard year. I have to pin some hope on the vaccine working well otherwise there would be no light at the end of the tunnel for us.

 

wow - that's a worry. How old is your kid?

[efcfanwirral]

3 minutes ago, vintagelaureate said:

The spread/behaviour of others is the thing that will keep me on my toes. I am lucky that I have had both doses (my own health issues) but it's my daughter I worry about. 

There isn't any real protection for vulnerable children. My daughter has on and off been pretty much at home since last March yet has still been hospitalised twice with generic (non Covid) viruses that must have been passed on through myself, my wife or my school age daughter.

We have no extended family so that isn't a worry and I have only seen one friend once since March last year, but it's a hard year. I have to pin some hope on the vaccine working well otherwise there would be no light at the end of the tunnel for us.

 

Just to clarify that's definitely not what I was saying- my point was more about people's general mentality when inevitably a few older people die with covid on their certificate in autumn. I'm most concerned about an overreaction of the opposite type to the delay of the original lockdown. The vaccine will work, but anything less than 100% and there's a lot of people who will demand restrictions just in case, which will be unnecessary but nobody can know for 100% sure then, which is where the difficult decisions start 

[fraybentos1]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

Again, it's not the risk to the people that have had both doses, it's the risk to the people they might spread it to. This risk gets a lot lower when those people are vaccinated to.

Now yes, you still need to weigh up that risk and consider if, especially when people might not have long left, if things like hugs and stuff are now worth it. They probably are.

But if you're justifying it to yourself by saying "it's as safe now as it'll ever be" then that's not true. It'll be loads safer in a few months. Make a personal judgement based on weighing up the risk yourself absolutely, but don't lie to yourself about what those risks are.

I'm not, I said 'the risks will keep diminishing but even now it is at low levels to people who have both doses.'

Also, it doesn't bother me I'm 25 and the oldest person i'll see is my mum and dad (60 odd) outdoors so I won't really need to break rules. It's different for old lonely grannies who have two doses and haven't seen their grandkids in a year/ ever.

[efcfanwirral]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

It must hurt to be this pessimistic.

Even though vaccines ‘might not work for everyone’ there is evidence of reduction in transmission. Add those two factors together and you don’t end up with a massive death toll in Autumn. 

I don't think in terms of pessimistic and optimistic or any of those labels, only possibilities. And I didn't say massive death toll, that's how you took "huge problem". The huge problem is a terrified population, and even a handful of deaths in autumn and you'll see irrationality creep back in

[Ozanne]

Just now, efcfanwirral said:

Just to clarify that's definitely not what I was saying- my point was more about people's general mentality when inevitably a few older people die with covid on their certificate in autumn. I'm most concerned about an overreaction of the opposite type to the delay of the original lockdown. The vaccine will work, but anything less than 100% and there's a lot of people who will demand restrictions just in case, which will be unnecessary but nobody can know for 100% sure then, which is where the difficult decisions start 

No vaccine is 100% effective though and the ones we have still give an incredibly good % level of protection so I don’t think we’ll get to a stage where they stop working. People might need a top up but otherwise I think we are in a very good place with the vaccines we have.

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

39 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Those damn scientists eh. 

Seriously though I'm not sure the point of this - not one finding is going to stop these rollouts so even if there's a problem for some people then unlucky for them will likely be the reaction. Just keep it internal 

Well my Mrs under 55 who's had AZ as one was going spare is actually pretty worried about it - which is dont think is unreasonable.

[efcfanwirral]

4 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

No vaccine is 100% effective though and the ones we have still give an incredibly good % level of protection so I don’t think we’ll get to a stage where they stop working. People might need a top up but otherwise I think we are in a very good place with the vaccines we have.

There'll definitely be top ups. Israel's vaccine passes expire after 6 months. I wonder if our government will be honest about that or continue to pretend it's only going to be boosters for the vulnerable and spring it on us at the time...

[vintagelaureate]

10 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

wow - that's a worry. How old is your kid?

My youngest is 3, and my eldest is 5.

[efcfanwirral]

5 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Well my Mrs under 55 who's had AZ as one was going spare is actually pretty worried about it - which is dont think is unreasonable.

I'm terrified of it- the exact thing that happened to these people is what happened to my mum (low platelets which is a serious autoimmune diease,and brain clot, NOT blood clot like a DVT which is how its been widely reported to sound less serious). If I have a genetic predisposition it could be a problem for me, but I guess i have to take it and hope for the best.  But it doesn't seem acceptable to talk about worries around the vaccine - it's a way back to normality for most so i don't think this sort of thing is ever going to make a difference- some may have bad effects but IF it gets back to normal most will see it as acceptable 

Edited March 30, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

There'll definitely be top ups. Israel's vaccine passes expire after 6 months. I wonder if our government will be honest about that or continue to pretend it's only going to be boosters for the vulnerable and spring it on us at the time...

I could be wrong but they have spoken about the potential for boosters, haven’t they?

[zahidf]