When will this shit end?

[balthazarstarbuck]

Just now, zahidf said:

They are removing the check in requirement for venues aren't they? Seems pointless using it for the next 2 weeks tbh

Pretty much everywhere I go I can sign in manually or via their website as an alternative now anyway. 

[Matt42]

49 minutes ago, philipsteak said:

So as I mentioned yesterday I'm currently having to isolate after being pinged on the app. Along with two other colleagues who also got pinged over the weekend. One from a contact on Monday and two (me included) from a contact on Wednesday. I was at work on Wednesday, around a lot of people so I could well have come in to contact with someone, but very unlikely to have been in contact with someone for any length of time. Isn't it supposed to be 15 minutes? The weird thing is my colleague (and housemate) was off on Wednesday and didn't leave the house. He barely left his room (he very much celebrated England's win over Germany) so how did he get pinged?

James o brien had a great show about this a while ago. You’re being told to isolate because an app ping has told you to. It’s not because of some serious medical advice to isolate.

The app was built for a country in lockdown, but we aren’t anymore, so it isn’t fit for purpose. 

[Matt42]

31 minutes ago, kalifire said:

Is it really a thing outside social media? Out here, nearly everyone wears masks when the health advice is that we should, and most of us don’t bother when the health advice is that it’s not mandatory. As far as I can tell, it hasn’t really made any difference - outbreaks occur independently of masks and the spread wasn’t any worse when we didn’t wear them. 

EDIT: of course, it’s never been so rampant here that masks were ever truly given a chance to come into their own. It’s always been precautionary. 

In London right now I’d say mask obedience has probably fallen to about 60%. Lots of people have stopped and I’ve also stopped seeing security or service staff asking people to put them back on.

I imagine these numbers will drop dramatically in the next few days.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Matt42

[efcfanwirral]

My newish bluetooth speaker works from the kitchen all the way upstairs, so my phone Bluetooth must be pretty good. Note to self to turn off the NHS app when I plan to use bluetooth at home for a while!! 

[DeanoL]

22 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Have we got data on whether they actually work? That’s the tell tale sign on whether it’s virtue signalling pandemic theatre of a sensible measure to protect members of the public. 
 

I struggle to see why I should wear a face mask to avoid spreading a virus that I don’t have. Surely I can’t spread a virus that I don’t actually have? 

If you're taking regular tests and hence know you don't have it, and then go out and wear a mask (assuming they're made voluntary) then yes, I guess that would be virtue signalling.

But most of us don't known at any given point if we do have it or not. 

Also I disagree on your test for virtue signalling vs sensible measure. The scientific data is all over the place, but I think it's sufficient that we can't say it doesn't work, in order for someone wearing a mask to not be virtue signalling. If they reasonably believe masks work, and so they wear a mask, they're doing a good thing.

(And yes, works in reverse, if you believe they don't work and so don't wear one, doesn't make you evil/selfish. But we have to accept that both these viewpoints exist and just because you don't think masks work doesn't mean that everyone wearing them doesn't think they work either but are doing it just to look like they're good people)

[balthazarstarbuck]

6 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

James o brien had a great show about this a while ago. You’re being told to isolate because an app ping has told you to. It’s not because of some serious medical advice to isolate.

The app was built for a country in lockdown, but we aren’t anymore, so it isn’t fit for purpose. 

The problem is though, it ain’t an app saying ‘might be a good idea to get yourself tested’, it says this:

Which is gonna scare the bejeezus out of people they’ll be fined or thrown in clink if they don’t comply.

[Matt42]

1 minute ago, balthazarstarbuck said:

The problem is though, it ain’t an app saying ‘might be a good idea to get yourself tested’, it says this:

Which is gonna scare the bejeezus out of people they’ll be fined or thrown in clink if they don’t comply.

I have a feeling this will change soon. Bookmark this but the rule will be only to self isolate if you have symptoms. If you are double vaccinated you won’t get an exposure notification.

[philipsteak]

4 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

James o brien had a great show about this a while ago. You’re being told to isolate because an app ping has told you to. It’s not because of some serious medical advice to isolate.

The app was built for a country in lockdown, but we aren’t anymore, so it isn’t fit for purpose. 

Not sure it ever was. The scenario with my colleague just shouldn't have happened, lockdown or not. 

The fact that when/if my test comes back negative I (second jab 2 months ago) still have to see out the 7 days is mad. Still, a paid week off work. Which is still an absolute shitshow so not sad to be missing that. Just makes it worse for my colleagues, with 3 of us off.

Shame I don't like watching tennis. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

2 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

If you're taking regular tests and hence know you don't have it, and then go out and wear a mask (assuming they're made voluntary) then yes, I guess that would be virtue signalling.

But most of us don't known at any given point if we do have it or not. 

Also I disagree on your test for virtue signalling vs sensible measure. The scientific data is all over the place, but I think it's sufficient that we can't say it doesn't work, in order for someone wearing a mask to not be virtue signalling. If they reasonably believe masks work, and so they wear a mask, they're doing a good thing.

(And yes, works in reverse, if you believe they don't work and so don't wear one, doesn't make you evil/selfish. But we have to accept that both these viewpoints exist and just because you don't think masks work doesn't mean that everyone wearing them doesn't think they work either but are doing it just to look like they're good people)

Good post, although I take issue with the bolded. The government has made twice a week testing freely available (and in practice you could even take a test more frequency than that if you wanted extra reassurance)

 

If you have the virus you should be staying at home under all circumstances and shouldn’t be going on public transport at all, mask or no mask. If you don’t have the virus then there’s no reason to wear a mask (unless you have one of those FFP3/N95 type masks that protect you as well)

FWIW, I think an infected carrier wearing a mask DOES reduce the amount of aerosols they’d breathing into the air. So masks sort of do work if you have the virus. But then, you shouldn’t be out of your house at all if you do. For the vast majority of us who don’t have the virus, mask wearing is literally just virtue signalling because we don’t have anything to spread in the first place. 

 

[jimmillen]

25 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Isn’t that exactly what’s happening though?

 

As far as I can tell the government is basically saying “We aren’t going to fine you for not wearing them anymore, you can come to your own judgement on when, if at all, they should still be worn, however we still advise that they should be worn in enclosed public spaces.”

 

The messaging is hardly going to be “burn your face nappies and shag grannies”

That would be quite some political messaging 😂

The substance of the guidance is about all they can say if removing legal enforcement of face coverings.

I guess I mean it’s more what they say around this and how they communicate it.

When a government is telling people they should do something - as opposed to mandating it through legislation - success depends on both moral authority and building public consensus around that course of action. This government has no moral authority and no capability or desire to build consensus. 

Basically I fear they’ll give ammunition to the weirdo extremists both pro- and anti-face coverings, do nothing to calm people down and the vast majority will be totally confused. 

I hope I’m wrong! But it’s the way they’ve gone about literally everything else so far, so… 

[Fuzzy Afro]

Lineup confirmed for 5pm. Boris, Whitty and Vallance.

 

Big guns being rolled out. 

[stuartbert two hats]

8 minutes ago, balthazarstarbuck said:

The problem is though, it ain’t an app saying ‘might be a good idea to get yourself tested’, it says this:

Which is gonna scare the bejeezus out of people they’ll be fined or thrown in clink if they don’t comply.

 

5 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

I have a feeling this will change soon. Bookmark this but the rule will be only to self isolate if you have symptoms. If you are double vaccinated you won’t get an exposure notification.

Interestingly I was told by the lady from Track+Trace over the phone yesterday that it was not a legal requirement to isolate, but a strong recommendation.

[fraybentos1]

Cases down by 1000 in Scotland compared to last week...

Is it on it's way back down here? Fuck knows but let's hope so.

[andyrhodes24]

3 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Lineup confirmed for 5pm. Boris, Whitty and Vallance.

 

Big guns being rolled out. 

Speaking of festivals going ahead, I hope Whitty plays "Next Slide Please", it's a right tune

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Lineup confirmed for 5pm. Boris, Whitty and Vallance.

 

Big guns being rolled out. 

that's good...need some sciency stuff to back these new opening plans...try and ease some nervous tension out there...I wonder if Whitty/Vallance will try and persuade people to continue to wear masks in certain situations or not?

[philipsteak]

5 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

 

Interestingly I was told by the lady from Track+Trace over the phone yesterday that it was not a legal requirement to isolate, but a strong recommendation.

You've just prompted me to check the screenshot of the initial message I got and yep, it does say advised. 

My companies policy is to isolate for the 7 days anyway. Not sure anyone could force you back to work as it stands now anyway. Wouldn't be a great look

[st dan]

One thing in regards to masks, I’m assuming it doesn’t have to be a concrete decision that can never be reversed?

Once things open up fully, if we are seeing cases at 100k+ a day in September/October, then then masks can become compulsory more or less overnight couldn’t they? If this brings cases back down to say 50k a couple of weeks later, then that would be enough real world evidence to show how effective they are, and the benefits of them staying over the autumn/winter period at least. 

[DeanoL]

13 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Good post, although I take issue with the bolded. The government has made twice a week testing freely available (and in practice you could even take a test more frequency than that if you wanted extra reassurance)

If you have the virus you should be staying at home under all circumstances and shouldn’t be going on public transport at all, mask or no mask. If you don’t have the virus then there’s no reason to wear a mask (unless you have one of those FFP3/N95 type masks that protect you as well)

FWIW, I think an infected carrier wearing a mask DOES reduce the amount of aerosols they’d breathing into the air. So masks sort of do work if you have the virus. But then, you shouldn’t be out of your house at all if you do. For the vast majority of us who don’t have the virus, mask wearing is literally just virtue signalling because we don’t have anything to spread in the first place. 

The problem is it's easy to get it and be entirely asymptomatic. And it's not like they could scale up the testing so that everyone could have one twice a week. 

Even if they could, I think the majority would find the requirement to have tests twice a week more onerous than mask wearing. I mean, people are saying they're fed up with wearing masks because they're uncomfortable but that throat/nose swap is a lot more uncomfortable! (I know, durations are different, but you'd get many of the same complaining).

[Havors]

2 minutes ago, st dan said:

One thing in regards to masks, I’m assuming it doesn’t have to be a concrete decision that can never be reversed?

Once things open up fully, if we are seeing cases at 100k+ a day in September/October, then then masks can become compulsory more or less overnight couldn’t they? If this brings cases back down to say 50k a couple of weeks later, then that would be enough real world evidence to show how effective they are, and the benefits of them staying over the autumn/winter period at least. 

Masks bringing cases down from 100k to 50k would be a miracle.... there is very little evidence they do anything of value anyway. If they worked to any noticeable extent like that we wouldn't have had the 2nd and 3rd wave. 

The guidance has always been illogical. To be classed as close contact you need to spend 15 mins in close proximity to someone (like the England lads)... so why would walking past people to go the bathroom without a mask on be any risk? And lets not mention the fact people finger their facemasks constantly and never wash them... haha 

I always worn one because its thats what they asked and it was no skin off my nose... regardless of how pointless I think they are. If they gave everyone the FFP3 masks, now that could make a real difference. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

10 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

The problem is it's easy to get it and be entirely asymptomatic. And it's not like they could scale up the testing so that everyone could have one twice a week. 

Even if they could, I think the majority would find the requirement to have tests twice a week more onerous than mask wearing. I mean, people are saying they're fed up with wearing masks because they're uncomfortable but that throat/nose swap is a lot more uncomfortable! (I know, durations are different, but you'd get many of the same complaining).

My issue with masks isn’t so much that wearing one bothers me personally, as much as I don’t like seeing other people wear them. I’d prefer them to be binned off entirely.

 

However, I’ll swab my nose and throat twice a week to avoid looking like a nuclear scientist in front of people on the train. 

[st dan]

6 minutes ago, Havors said:

Masks bringing cases down from 100k to 50k would be a miracle.... there is very little evidence they do anything of value anyway. If they worked to any noticeable extent like that we wouldn't have had the 2nd and 3rd wave. 

The guidance has always been illogical. To be classed as close contact you need to spend 15 mins in close proximity to someone (like the England lads)... so why would walking past people to go the bathroom without a mask on be any risk? And lets not mention the fact people finger their facemasks constantly and never wash them... haha 

I always worn one because its thats what they asked and it was no skin off my nose... regardless of how pointless I think they are. If they gave everyone the FFP3 masks, now that could make a real difference. 

Yeah that’s fair, and if we don’t really see a significant increase in cases once masks are no longer compulsory, then the argument over whether they are/were ever required has answered itself.

[Matt42]

17 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

 

Interestingly I was told by the lady from Track+Trace over the phone yesterday that it was not a legal requirement to isolate, but a strong recommendation.

 

8 minutes ago, philipsteak said:

You've just prompted me to check the screenshot of the initial message I got and yep, it does say advised. 

My companies policy is to isolate for the 7 days anyway. Not sure anyone could force you back to work as it stands now anyway. Wouldn't be a great look

Just like with everything throughout this whole pandemic I think there is also a case of being unlikely.

I know someone who recently travelled and basically broke every rule going. Fancied some hobnobs and went to the shop to try and find them, they weren’t in store so went through a series of shops to find them. Didn’t get contacted at all by test and trace.

Then I know someone who travelled and got serial knocks on their door at every moment checking they were in.

[Matt42]

Pretty grim this, leading SAGE scientist Susan Mitchie advocating for lifetime masks and lockdowns. Coincidentally a member of the British Communist Party. No surprise she’s uneasy with the state giving up some controls on individuals. She clearly doesn’t trust individuals to be smart enough to keep themselves alive or make their own decisions.

[northernringo]

 

[Havors]

1 minute ago, northernringo said:

 

A lot of people I know scan in but have the contact tracing off. Its all been pointless for while now.