Will the 2021 festival go ahead?

[Supernintendo Chalmers]

5 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Welcome back  .... fingers crossed is what im very firmly doing now on all counts .... the positive is that we are very good at delivering the flu vaccine every winter .... lets hope the covid one builds on this success 

Thank you, Sir. I share your hope.

Let's see the state of play post the Christmas free-for-all. A month is a long time in the current climate.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, Supernintendo Chalmers said:

Thank you, Sir. I share your hope.

Let's see the state of play post the Christmas free-for-all. A month is a long time in the current climate.

Based on Wales the infection rate is likely to get worse around the new year even if there wasn't xmas.

I reckon that it's mid to late Feb is when the data needs to be showing an improvement. Hopefully by then the vaccine will be starting to impact into the hospital and death numbers.

[The Dawg]

It's also worth considering that the Government will be very keen on giving Cheltenham festival the green light which is in March. I cannot see that happening but it's a watch this space to see how that is handled?  

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, The Dawg said:

It's also worth considering that the Government will be very keen on giving Cheltenham festival the green light which is in March. I cannot see that happening but it's a watch this space to see how that is handled?  

it's sort-of already been given the green light - tho limited to 2,000 currently (same as footy). I'm guessing the govt is wanting to increase the limit if/when they can.

Although March is probably too early to see solid-enough effects from the vaccine to be opening things up normally.

[squirrelarmy]

5 minutes ago, The Dawg said:

It's also worth considering that the Government will be very keen on giving Cheltenham festival the green light which is in March. I cannot see that happening but it's a watch this space to see how that is handled?  

I’ve had the same theory for a while. I have no intention of going but got myself on the mailing list so as soon as tickets go on sale for CF I know there’s hope for Glasto. They are already selling hospitality packages. 

[Crazyfool01]

4 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

I’ve had the same theory for a while. I have no intention of going but got myself on the mailing list so as soon as tickets go on sale for CF I know there’s hope for Glasto. They are already selling hospitality packages. 

You can’t buy tickets to go to CF .... you can buy tickets for CrazyFool though  

[Ozanne]

15 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

I’ve had the same theory for a while. I have no intention of going but got myself on the mailing list so as soon as tickets go on sale for CF I know there’s hope for Glasto. They are already selling hospitality packages. 

I bet those aren't cheap!

[Lycra]

3 hours ago, squirrelarmy said:

I’ve had the same theory for a while. I have no intention of going but got myself on the mailing list so as soon as tickets go on sale for CF I know there’s hope for Glasto. They are already selling hospitality packages. 

I'm not sure CF is a good benchmark indicator for Glasto as the new tier system permits attendance of 2000 or 4000 fans, depending on the tier. To comply with these limits racecourses are giving first preference to annual members who reside in tiers 1 & 2. Tickets not taken up by annual members are then put on general sale. Anyone with a tier 3 postcode, including annual members, are not permitted to attend.

If this system is still operative come March then I would not expect any general sale of CF tickets as the attendance allocation will be met by annual members. The only positive indicator which can be observed through sport is the normalizing of crowd limits to the pre-covid era.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Lycra

[Leyrulion]

28 minutes ago, Lycra said:

Tickets not taken up by annual members are then put on general sale. Anyone with a tier 3 postcode, including annual members, are not permitted to attend.

 

Oh fuck....what if there's a tier system come June and they apply the same logic to Glastonbury.

Obviously if we still had a tier 3 it wouldn't be happening but tier 1 is medium alert. What if they introduce a low alert and very low alert level and you can't get tickets if your registration is outside those postcodes.

[thetime]

2 minutes ago, Leyrulion said:

Oh fuck....what if there's a tier system come June and they apply the same logic to Glastonbury.

Obviously if we still had a tier 3 it wouldn't be happening but tier 1 is medium alert. What if they introduce a low alert and very low alert level and you can't get tickets if your registration is outside those postcodes.

move

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, Leyrulion said:

Oh fuck....what if there's a tier system come June and they apply the same logic to Glastonbury.

Obviously if we still had a tier 3 it wouldn't be happening but tier 1 is medium alert. What if they introduce a low alert and very low alert level and you can't get tickets if your registration is outside those postcodes.

If that was the4 case then I think they'd introduce the option to roll your ticket to 2022. Similar to if you test positive in the week of the festival, you have a simple option on SeeTickets to roll your ticket, it would prevent people going if they've tested positive. 

[incident]

As this gets brought up frequently, I've done a mini summary on all of the regulation potentially relevant to the festival that's still in place, and the relevant end dates (as they stand today). In order of being passed -

Coronavirus Act - doesn't contain any significant restrictions in itself, but does allow for them to be imposed on an emergency basis by ministerial decree. Expires 25th March 2022.

International Travel - Requires arriving travellers to provide certain information and in some cases self-isolate. Expires 8th June 2021.

Local Restrictions - Allows local authorities various powers, most notably for us to cancel events. Expires 17th January 2021.

Face Coverings - Requires use of masks etc in public places. Expires 24th July 2021.

Contact Tracing - Mandates the collection of data for contact tracing. Expires 24th September 2021.

Self Isolation - Requires people self isolate after contact with someone infected. Expires 28th September 2021.

Local Enforcement - Allows local authorities greater powers when enforcing regulations. Expires 2nd June 2021.

Tiers - sets out the current Tier system and restrictions within it. Expires 2nd February 2021.

Obviously that simplifies it, but I think covers everything important.

[Copperface]

1 minute ago, incident said:

As this gets brought up frequently, I've done a mini summary on all of the regulation potentially relevant to the festival that's still in place, and the relevant end dates (as they stand today). In order of being passed -

Coronavirus Act - doesn't contain any significant restrictions in itself, but does allow for them to be imposed on an emergency basis by ministerial decree. Expires 25th March 2022.

International Travel - Requires arriving travellers to provide certain information and in some cases self-isolate. Expires 8th June 2021.

Local Restrictions - Allows local authorities various powers, most notably for us to cancel events. Expires 17th January 2021.

Face Coverings - Requires use of masks etc in public places. Expires 24th July 2021.

Contact Tracing - Mandates the collection of data for contact tracing. Expires 24th September 2021.

Self Isolation - Requires people self isolate after contact with someone infected. Expires 28th September 2021.

Local Enforcement - Allows local authorities greater powers when enforcing regulations. Expires 2nd June 2021.

Tiers - sets out the current Tier system and restrictions within it. Expires 2nd February 2021.

Obviously that simplifies it, but I think covers everything important.

You've missed out by far the most important legislation.

Which does not expire.

[incident]

Just now, Copperface said:

You've missed out by far the most important legislation.

Which does not expire.

Go on, humour me.

[Copperface]

14 minutes ago, incident said:

Go on, humour me.

Public Health (CDA) 84.

Power to restrict mass gatherings by ministerial instructions comes from that, not any of those listed above.

**Edited to add link to previous post covering this**

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Copperface

[thetime]

This might or might not be any use from the point of the thread, I will put it out there anyway/

Roskilde Festival is pretty good at sharing information, perhaps one of the better festivals for sharing information with the punters. They are pretty similar in the type of festival, size and time of year.

Danish festivals join forces for a responsible way to reopen | Roskilde Festival (roskilde-festival.dk)

 

Specifically, the task group works with the following:

• New testing and screening options: Before, during and after events using the public testing capacity as well as screening using reliable rapid tests.
• Registration of all guests and active infection tracking, including requirements for documentation of negative test results before participation.
• Initiatives with a focus on increased hygiene and cleaning as well as the use of, for example, face masks and fever scanning at the entrance.
• Behavior regulation through crowd management.
• Plans for arranging 'learning concerts' which makes it possible to look into the handling of tests and of the audience, their attitudes and behaviour, etc. It will ensure better knowledge before the execution of festivals and major concerts.

 

[incident]

Just now, Copperface said:

Public Health (CDA) 84.

Power to restrict mass gatherings by ministerial instructions comes from that, not any of those listed above.

I was going over the new/updated regulations rather than the baseline legislation that's applied for years.

Regardless of that, according to the government, those emergency powers are essentially replicated in the Coronavirus Act anyway (they say in order to standardise between the 4 nations), so I don't believe it's leaving out anything that has the potential to affect Glastonbury 2021 - in the event they did invoke emergency powers, it doesn't matter much which act it's under (or hell, pass a new one) as the outcome is the same.

[Copperface]

2 minutes ago, incident said:

I was going over the new/updated regulations rather than the baseline legislation that's applied for years.

Regardless of that, according to the government, those emergency powers are essentially replicated in the Coronavirus Act anyway (they say in order to standardise between the 4 nations), so I don't believe it's leaving out anything that has the potential to affect Glastonbury 2021 - in the event they did invoke emergency powers, it doesn't matter much which act it's under (or hell, pass a new one) as the outcome is the same.

Partly correct. The restrictions on mass gatherings under the CV Act require parliamentary scrutiny. The same powers used under PH (CDA) 84 don't, and they last as long as a minister requires, nor are they Emergency Powers.

[zahidf]

Festivals won't be happening if we are still in a tier system. 

[mufcok]

If there are still 'tiers' in place, 6 months after the vaccine roll out started, then this Government are more incompetent than anyone could have possibly imagined 

Edited December 7, 2020 by mufcok

[Leyrulion]

46 minutes ago, Copperface said:

Partly correct. The restrictions on mass gatherings under the CV Act require parliamentary scrutiny. The same powers used under PH (CDA) 84 don't, and they last as long as a minister requires, nor are they Emergency Powers.

There's actually legislation dating back to 1833 that's been used for Corona related rules. But its not relevant here.

The confusion might be because of the statutory instruments made under the 1983 act DO usually require parliamentary scrutiny unless they're made under it's emergency procedure. 

All the rules they're creating through statutory instruments should be being put to parliament in 21 days. But this is being regularly broken, especially early on. 

If any nerds want a deep dive there's a really interesting blog on the Hansard society website.

https://www.hansardsociety.org.uk/publications/data/coronavirus-statutory-instruments-dashboard

 

Just to add whilst there might not be a legal term such as "emergency powers" used in the legislation I think most people would reasonably describe restrictions assembly and movement as use of an emergency power by the government. 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Leyrulion

[Copperface]

18 minutes ago, Leyrulion said:

There's actually legislation dating back to 1833 that's been used for Corona related rules. But its not relevant here.

The confusion might be becoming because of the statutory instruments made under the act DO require parliamentary unless they're made under the emergency procedure of the 1983 act. 

All the rules they're creating through statutory instruments should be being put to parliament in 21 days. But this is being regularly broken, especially early on. 

If any nerds want a deep dive there's a really interesting blog on the Hansard society website.

https://www.hansardsociety.org.uk/publications/data/coronavirus-statutory-instruments-dashboard

Not sure about the 1833 stuff, but the ministerial direction is not a Statutory Instrument either. Which 1983 act are you referring to?

The main point is that the power to restrict gatherings is basically overlapped (not exactly duplicated because of ratification requirements) in PH (CDA) 84 and the CV Act and Regs that follow from that.  In a nutshell, the CV Act gathering restrictions will normally be used on a more local and individual basis according to local need and the PH(CDA) powers will be used on a more national scale. However, the ministerial directions under both acts do not need to be put before Parliament.  Only SIs have to be.

The CV regs allow for Local Authorities to restrict or approve gatherings, and this can be overridden if needed by ministerial direction, which trumps the CV regs.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Copperface

[Gnomicide]

Can't I just mumble some bollocks about the Magna Carta and go anyway?

[Mellotr0n]

2 hours ago, mufcok said:

If there are still 'tiers' in place, 6 months after the vaccine roll out started, then this Government are more incompetent than anyone could have possibly imagined 

Yup. Many, many things would’ve needed to have gone catastrophically wrong for us to still be in a tiered system come June. 

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, zahidf said:

Festivals won't be happening if we are still in a tier system. 

those laws can be ended in the blink of an eye. Just because they have expiry dates doesn't mean those laws will continue to those dates.

We've all seen the political pressure being put on Spaffer to end or lessen restrictions. That's going to be just the same - but with bigger numbers behind it - as the crisis lessens.

And the crisis as far as health demand goes should be at an end by (before!) April. The tories are not the types to have restrictive laws when no justification exists for those restrictive laws.

The only thing that's going to count is how quickly any caution disappears from tory MPs.