When will this shit end?

[Pinhead]

22 minutes ago, Rex2 said:

We've got to do it at some point. The NHS is nowhere near full capacity. There are now many studies proving the vaccines significantly reduce hospitalisations. Where is the risk? Better now than in 3 months when the NHS is at risk of being overwhelmed as admissions rise anyway. Also, by your metric, will it be safe to open in 3 months when the most vulnerables protection from the vaccine might be wearing off. As you say, we just don't know. 

It not just about covid capacity tho - there's all the last year backlog of what, over 5 million now as well on the waiting list, so even a comparatively smaller increase in the hospitalised makes an increasingly disproportionate impact on services. Tho they keep saying they're 'driven by the data' reality is the politics will trump all and sacrifices might be made. Johnson's not bothered about breaking any promises or other - he does that daily and can get away with anything atm.

[andyrhodes24]

Just now, Chapple12345 said:

I think this is actually an okay compromise, how many additional vaccinations would we expect in this period after the huge demand the other day? 

At the current rate it’d be about 4-5m first doses and 11-12m second doses on current supplies which are good numbers when it’s put like that

[zahidf]

Just now, Pinhead said:

It not just about covid capacity tho - there's all the last year backlog of what, over 5 million now as well on the waiting list, so even a comparatively smaller increase in the hospitalised makes an increasingly disproportionate impact on services. Tho they keep saying they're 'driven by the data' reality is the politics will trump all and sacrifices might be made. Johnson's not bothered about breaking any promises or other - he does that daily and can get away with anything atm.

Backlog shouldn't be a reason to keep these ridiculous restrictions in place

[zahidf]

4 minutes ago, Chapple12345 said:

I think this is actually an okay compromise, how many additional vaccinations would we expect in this period after the huge demand the other day? 

As long as it isn't 'another review'. The vaccines work and if this is just to get more jabs in arms, we allow a small delay and then crack on

[MrBarry465]

Just now, zahidf said:

Backlog shouldn't be a reason to keep these ridiculous restrictions in place

There isn't any 'ridiculous restrictions' left in place imo. Again, you are really going off the deep end here.

Most of the final measures in place are precautionary and will be removed when it's safe to do so.

Go outside and get some air bro, it's like you think it's January still.

[Pinhead]

I get what you're saying, tho you might feel differently if you were on the waiting list. That list is now becoming a parameter in decision making I think as it grows and gains more political traction.

[kalifire]

12 minutes ago, zahidf said:

He can be a bit much sometimes, but saying June 21st should go ahead isn't a minority view.

And it's fine to be upset if one of your kids is missing out on something because of the extension.

Of course it is. He’s entitled to be upset. I don’t have a child and can’t imagine how difficult it must be to lose out on those memories, but he’s no worse off than anyone else who’s had to lose out on memories, or see family memories die. 

My point is that loss doesn’t validate a matter of opinion. Using it to that end is particularly grim. 

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

As long as it isn't 'another review'. The vaccines work and if this is just to get more jabs in arms, we allow a small delay and then crack on

Of course there will be another review.

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, kalifire said:

Of course it is. He’s entitled to be upset. I don’t have a child and can’t imagine how difficult it must be to lose out on those memories, but he’s no worse off than anyone else who’s had to lose out on memories, or see family memories die. 

My point is that loss doesn’t validate a matter of opinion. Using it to that end is particularly grim. 

Fair enough. I guess from my perspective he was just putting forward his reasons for why the extension is a bad idea!

[zahidf]

Just now, steviewevie said:

Of course there will be another review.

Well then that's ridiculous. No certainty and more economic issues just because of a view over cautious boffins who are publicly coming out with their nutter views over masks and forced social distancing.

[MrBarry465]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Well then that's ridiculous. No certainty and more economic issues just because of a view over cautious boffins who are publicly coming out with their nutter views over masks and forced social distancing.

So let me get this straight. You don't think they should review things and just make decisions on a whim? 

Lost the plot mate.....

Edited June 11, 2021 by MrBarry465

[MrBarry465]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

If you wasn't so focused on getting personal with me you would realise it was an example of another set of memories thousands of kids will lose not just my daughter you cretin

Piss off, calling someone a cretin - who made a pretty reasonable point is out of line. 

[steviewevie]

I'm not that so into football these days but I am even more less interested than usual in the euros which apparently start in a couple of hours...maybe I'll get into it after a few games. More interested with what will happen with the kneeling booing standoff that the actual football. These things need packed stadiums, they need an atmosphere.  It will be same with olympics, no crowds cheering means just watching some people running and that's about it. Roll on this shit being over.

[MrBarry465]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

A delay like that will be the end for some pubs and restaurants.  So have obvously been operating on vapour for a while with the 21st as a final tipping point.  Some people will be ruined now sadly.

It's been what, 15 months now and yes a few extra weeks might be the end for SOME pubs and SOME restaurants. But the damage on that part is already done imo.

Delaying a few weeks will potentially save a lot of lives and medical stress. 

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Well then that's ridiculous. No certainty and more economic issues just because of a view over cautious boffins who are publicly coming out with their nutter views over masks and forced social distancing.

yeah...ok...but in 4 weeks time if it's really fucking bad he's not going to say...ok, let's open. That's the reality. It's shit, but that's what it is.

(hopefully won't be really fucking bad, hopefully will be pretty good).

[MrBarry465]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

You either trust the vaccines or you don't.  Business needs a life line.

Whether you trust the vaccines or not, taking the stance to 'not review' how they are going is fucking retarded beyond belief.

Some of you have really lost it.

[Pinhead]

Chill guys. The end is in sight.

At least it was a virus that we were able to re-factor and develop vaccines for in record time. If it had been something new and as virulent as anthrax or something, we'd have taken years to develop similar and would probably not be around now to type any of this...

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

You either trust the vaccines or you don't.  Business needs a life line.

They trumpet the vax program as wonderful and amazing.

But it is not amazing or wonderful enough for you to be able to go to Benidorm for a week, as Theresa May pointed out 

And so its wonderful until it comes to giving you your freedom back in return. At which point 'variants' are used to discredit vaccine 'just in case'
 

[Hutchmaster]

Just got my vaccine at AFC Wimbledon! Giving out Moderna today it seems...

[thewayiam]

1 hour ago, efcfanwirral said:

Knew it was going to sell out today whenever it takes place so figured I'd want to be there even if it moves! 

This is true. 

The reaction I've seen to a couple of posts in this last couple of hours is truly disgusting. It's not unexpected from a few individuals but this post had returned to to a kind of civilized place only for a certain 2 or 3 utter inconveniences on this forum now which is the only way I'd describe them now to make an arse of themselves.

47 minutes ago, jimmillen said:

OK, say we were to fully reopen as planned on the 21st. Keeping it simple, there's two potential outcomes:

In the optimistic scenario, we get away with it. Cases rise but hospitalisations and deaths stay below a manageable level. The NHS can cope. Businesses go back to normal and everyone's happy. 

In the negative scenario, we don't get away with it. Cases rise and while the rate of hospitalisations & deaths is lower than in previous waves thanks to the vaccines, it's still enough to put enormous pressure on the NHS. Restrictions have to be re-imposed, businesses which had reopened have to shut again. Johnson's reputation is damaged having gone back on his promise to make the easing of restrictions irreversible.

There are a lot of downsides to option 2, clearly. So if you're prepared to risk it, you'd better be very, very confident of the data to say actually no, there's only a 1 in 100 chance of this outcome happening. Especially when the negative consequences of not reopening fully for another 2-4 weeks are so very much less.

As has been pointed out at great length already on this thread, the data just isn't solid enough yet to judge. It might indeed be a 1 in 100 chance - that would be great. But it could instead be 1 in 5, or even worse, We just don't know yet!

The government's formal line has always been data not dates. Admittedly in their informal briefings they've implied otherwise to the media which absolutely hasn't helped the situation. But there is no moving of goalposts here if the data doesn't give us the assurance we need to reopen.

Reopening before the vaccinations are completed and risking more deaths that are unneeded is a risk. We are at a situation now where we are saying that anyone who goes against the theory of a delay is kind of putting their life before the general death of others concerned.

As for the guy above to do with his family. I completely understand. I don't have kinds but empathize how hard this has been. Mental Health is at an all time low.

20 minutes ago, andyrhodes24 said:

Don’t read The Sun but 

 

Now I ask, can people please remember it says July 19th as the proposed date. This does not mean it's a dead set date. I also means that July unfortunately is gone.

[thewayiam]

12 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Well then that's ridiculous. No certainty and more economic issues just because of a view over cautious boffins who are publicly coming out with their nutter views over masks and forced social distancing.

Buck up pal. You aren't coming across well today on here. Usually you aren't that bad. Don't bring yourself down to that other waste of space and time on here.

[MrBarry465]

5 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I think you have lost it.  You are practically ranting on here now  🙂

Nah we've got people here saying that reviewing vaccine programs and how seccesful they are shouldn't even factor into the equation. It's just absolute nonsense.

[MrBarry465]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

Ultimately we can all thank Boris for this.  If only he had closed the border with India.

That we can agree on. The borders should have shut up shop 15 months ago.

[squirrelarmy]

38 minutes ago, Punksnotdead said:

Surprised they didn't have a spike in sales when we had the bog roll shortages last year. 😄

Newsprint on your arse isn’t fun especially if you wear white underwear 

[philipsteak]

47 minutes ago, kalifire said:

So how come minority views get a pass when every other parent has had to go the same issue? I don’t underestimate how difficult it must be to miss out on something important and I feel for him as a father, but there are no special cases here. This is the reality of the virus. 

 

18 minutes ago, kalifire said:

Of course it is. He’s entitled to be upset. I don’t have a child and can’t imagine how difficult it must be to lose out on those memories, but he’s no worse off than anyone else who’s had to lose out on memories, or see family memories die. 

My point is that loss doesn’t validate a matter of opinion. Using it to that end is particularly grim. 

Whereas I think having a pop at someone cos they are upset that their kid (and, as he pointed out, everyone else's kid) are missing out on yet more important stuff is a bit grim. 

Don't get me wrong, I'd generally align much more with you than Barry in general, but there just seemed to be a bit of relish in that initial content. You can of course now tell me I read something in to it that wasn't there.