When will this shit end?

[st dan]

Looks like we are well on course for over 100,000 Covid deaths by the end of winter.

Discarding those aged under 18, the UK population is approx 52m. So that would be 1 in 520 people (aged 18 and above) would have sadly lost their lives to a disease that wasn’t even a ‘thing’ this time last year. When you put it into figures like that it is terribly sobering. 

[Andre91]

21 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

My mates just got her email from the union advising her not to go into work. 

Schools have to be asked to close by the government though otherwise the teachers aren’t getting paid. They are effectively taking strike action by not going in. 

Is that primary or secondary? 

[efcfanwirral]

 

1 hour ago, dingbat2 said:

My other half is a primary school teacher, she has to work in a portacabin where the windows have to be kept open for ventilation so the room is freezing, kids are simply not able to socially distance at the ages of 6-7, and she is not allowed to wear any PPE at all as it might upset the children, but she will still be expected to help a child who has fallen over or who is upset during the day, and is not allowed to be tested, neither are the children. Kids that age will spread the virus so quickly, to each other and to their parents and teachers. The schools when be forced to close again within a week or two. Its utter madness schools going back at this time when we know cases are rising and are expected to continue to soar, we dont need to give those soaring case numbers a helping hand at this stage. Closing schools will at least give us a week or two to sort out how cases are tracking after Christmas and with the new variant, and give the NHS more time to vaccinate even more keyworkers and the elderly

And it'll make the whole country like London is now, with very little in terms of a health service for a few weeks at least. Its madness and I fully expect them to go through with it 

24 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

My mates just got her email from the union advising her not to go into work. 

Schools have to be asked to close by the government though otherwise the teachers aren’t getting paid. They are effectively taking strike action by not going in. 

Exactly what the government want - they can blame unions and Labour and save some money at the same time. While further reinforcing how bad unions are to their voters. 

[steviewevie]

31 minutes ago, Copperface said:

The headline is "Trying to lock down until Covid is eradicated would be dangerous folly".

Nobody has suggested that.

not yet, anyway.

[Copperface]

6 minutes ago, Leyrulion said:

People are saying it's  section 44 of the employment act that allows it.

https://labourlist.org/2020/05/returning-to-work-section-44-explained

 

 

So the argument would be, what has changed in terms of imminent danger to the employee since they last broke up? 

[steviewevie]

Peter Foster thread on schools+covid...

 

[incident]

Just now, Copperface said:

So the argument would be, what has changed in terms of imminent danger to the employee since they last broke up? 

Tier 4, surely?

The Government have effectively said there's more danger by creating and imposing it since then.

[steviewevie]

 

[Copperface]

Just now, incident said:

Tier 4, surely?

The Government have effectively said there's more danger by creating and imposing it since then.

Tier 4 isn't a threat to health, that's about reducing transmission. Covid is the threat. The point being is that if is about the new strain, then that has been known about since September. What makes the threat greater now as opposed to three weeks ago. Is this a national move and if so, then you cannot reconcile teachers in Tier 3 with Tier 4 as per your comparison. 

[Ozanne]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

Labour government with SNP in a confidence and supply arrangement. 

[incident]

1 minute ago, Copperface said:

Tier 4 isn't a threat to health, that's about reducing transmission. Covid is the threat. The point being is that if is about the new strain, then that has been known about since September. What makes the threat greater now as opposed to three weeks ago. Is this a national move and if so, then you cannot reconcile teachers in Tier 3 with Tier 4 as per your comparison. 

The Government statements surrounding the introduction of Tier 4 can certainly be used to suggest an increased threat. The new strain may have been first identified in September, but the Government statements surrounding the impact of it it are new - especially relevant are the ones relating to transmission amongst kids, which are naturally going to be of concern to Teachers.

I do think the Government statements were overkill to try and distract from how badly they previously fucked up, but as with the border issues - if you're going to tell people there's a monster out there then don't be surprised if they start reacting to it.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Labour government with SNP in a confidence and supply arrangement. 

what would labour offer SNP?

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

1 minute ago, incident said:

The Government statements surrounding the introduction of Tier 4 can certainly be used to suggest an increased threat. The new strain may have been first identified in September, but the Government statements surrounding the impact of it it are new - especially relevant are the ones relating to transmission amongst kids, which are naturally going to be of concern to Teachers.

I do think the Government statements were overkill to try and distract from how badly they previously fucked up, but as with the border issues - if you're going to tell people there's a monster out there then don't be surprised if they start reacting to it.

At what point does it become safe to return to work though? 

 

I just don't see how you avoid this becoming a rabbit hole leading to another indefinite closure to schools.

Edited January 2, 2021 by RobertProsineckisLighter

[Gingerfish79]

Just now, Ozanne said:

Labour government with SNP in a confidence and supply arrangement. 

Only one way the SNP prop up any coalition and that’s with a guaranteed referendum. It would be suicide for Labour. They need the Lib Dem’s to win enough seats to form a Coalition.

[charlierc]

2 hours ago, Copperface said:

Don't think anyone is actually suggesting a lockdown until Covid eradication.

Isn't that what China and New Zealand did?

Difficult imo. Nature of the virus just feels like every measure we try to control it short of doing that just buys time until the next spike rather than ending it. Though that's just my instinct.

[steviewevie]

Just now, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

At what point does it become safe to return to work though? 

when boris says so, like he did last summer.

[charlierc]

10 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

Didn't realise that the Brexit Party are still a thing.

[xxialac]

9 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

Where do those hefty 3.8% of Brexit Party votes go in a post-Brexit world?

A new right wing party for angry people is needed or the Tories have a free run...

[Dark Star]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

what would labour offer SNP?

The independence referendum that would end Labour ever having a chance of power again?

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

what would labour offer SNP?

 

Just now, Gingerfish79 said:

Only one way the SNP prop up any coalition and that’s with a guaranteed referendum. It would be suicide for Labour. They need the Lib Dem’s to win enough seats to form a Coalition.

A form of devo max and PR for Westminster elections effectively ruling out a Tory majority for years.

Otherwise in that arrangement of seats there isn’t really a government that can be formed as Con wouldn’t be able to pass a Queens Speech and whilst Lab might as a minority government they couldn’t effectively govern for a long time. 

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, charlierc said:

Isn't that what China and New Zealand did?

Difficult imo. Nature of the virus just feels like every measure we try to control it short of doing that just buys time until the next spike rather than ending it. Though that's just my instinct.

This is what Richard Burgon and co were calling for last summer...instead of the "eat out to help out learn to live with it go back to work you lazy bastards" government policies.

[Leyrulion]

7 minutes ago, Copperface said:

Tier 4 isn't a threat to health, that's about reducing transmission. Covid is the threat. The point being is that if is about the new strain, then that has been known about since September. What makes the threat greater now as opposed to three weeks ago. Is this a national move and if so, then you cannot reconcile teachers in Tier 3 with Tier 4 as per your comparison. 

24th December 7 day average case rates 38,000 

3 weeks earlier 16,000 a day. R at or below 1.

Newly announced cases today 57,000

Impact of new strain was not known in September, or two weeks ago (only theorised). It's a known threat. 

Are you seriously suggesting nothing has changed in the last 4 weeks?

 

Anyway I'm sure one of the 8 other posts submitted when I typed this might have said something similar.

 

[Copperface]

2 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Isn't that what China and New Zealand did?

Difficult imo. Nature of the virus just feels like every measure we try to control it short of doing that just buys time until the next spike rather than ending it. Though that's just my instinct.

Every single scientist/doctor/med expert everywhere that I have seen states that the virus will never be eradicated. We will have to learn to coexist and control the spread through both therapeutic and non therapeutic measures. China and NZ will be doing the same. They cannot exist in isolation.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

 

A form of devo max and PR for Westminster elections effectively ruling out a Tory majority for years.

Otherwise in that arrangement of seats there isn’t really a government that can be formed as Con wouldn’t be able to pass a Queens Speech and whilst Lab might as a minority government they couldn’t effectively govern for a long time. 

but what would all those lovely brexity english nationalists that live someplace called the red wall think?

[Ozanne]

Just now, steviewevie said:

but what would all those lovely brexity english nationalists that live someplace called the red wall think?

I don’t think there’s anything there they wouldn’t like?